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$36 180:5 handed bad call?

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03-25-2010 , 05:59 PM

battster41

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 544

I know the button is wide so is this a bad call? I know ICM wise it probably is but damn..I know I am ahead of his range here. For this example lets say u can see his cards and they are KTo. are you calling? or A4?

Poker Stars $33+$3 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t2000/t4000 Blinds + t400 - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: t23766 M = 2.97
CO: t42545 M = 5.32
BTN: t157971 M = 19.75
Hero (SB): t33348 M = 4.17
BB: t12370 M = 1.55

Pre Flop: (t8000) Hero is SB with 8

2 folds, BTN raises to t24000, Hero raises to t32948 all in, 1 fold, BTN calls t8948

Flop: (t71896) 2

(2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: (t71896) 4

(2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t71896) T

(2 players - 1 is all in)

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03-25-2010 , 06:05 PM

slowTAOn

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 9

Well at least in my donkish opinion, being 5 handed, saying you know the button is wide, and considering the fact you have an M of 4, I'm all in.

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03-25-2010 , 06:06 PM

nizzwsop

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,618

Ur folllowing ur reads and playing accordingly, thats not a bad thing at all, we can all sit and tell you to do this and that, but if you felt you had the best of it then go!
Plus you have less than 10 BB's here, so I dont think its a bad move at all.

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03-25-2010 , 06:06 PM

ftn_chris

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,539

fold wtf. ainec

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03-25-2010 , 06:06 PM

BigGameDame

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 347

not folding here either cuz i play 180s for first

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03-25-2010 , 06:08 PM

battster41

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 544

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftn_chris

fold wtf. ainec

Why fold? PLease explain. SO if u knew for sure he had A4 u arent calling here?

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03-25-2010 , 06:09 PM

ftn_chris

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,539

Quote:

Originally Posted by battster41

Why fold? PLease explain

because lighting money on fire is -ev. why would you wanna flip here.

icm-wise its a fold if button is shoving atc.

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03-25-2010 , 06:10 PM

BigGameDame

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 347

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftn_chris

because lighting money on fire is -ev. why would you wanna flip here.

lol love u icm donks

have fun with your small roi

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03-25-2010 , 06:11 PM

BigGameDame

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 347

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftn_chris

because lighting money on fire is -ev. why would you wanna flip here.

not a flip against a normal range imo, i'll admit its close though, the decision that is, not his range

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03-25-2010 , 06:11 PM

#10

slowTAOn

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftn_chris

because lighting money on fire is -ev. why would you wanna flip here.

Btn has almost 4 times as many chips than anyone else.. if A 8 isn't good enough what are we waiting for?

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03-25-2010 , 06:11 PM

#11

battster41

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 544

A8o vs Q9+, K5+--thats not a flip. 60/40..I think u have to take a 60/40. Of course he could have pair too but still. Yea. u have a point. Anyway, he had A5o. Hit his straight. I suck again.

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03-25-2010 , 06:12 PM

#12

BigGameDame

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 347

Quote:

Originally Posted by battster41

A8o vs Q9+, K5+--thats not a flip. 60/40..I think u have to take a 60/40.

wayyyyy to tight of a range imo, try something like 100% lol

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03-25-2010 , 06:18 PM

#13

bdaewn

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,441

lol, wtf, fold

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03-25-2010 , 06:23 PM

#14

battster41

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 544

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftn_chris

because lighting money on fire is -ev. why would you wanna flip here.

icm-wise its a fold if button is shoving atc.

U not calling AT? 77+ here?

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03-25-2010 , 06:23 PM

#15

ftn_chris

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,539

Quote:

Originally Posted by battster41

A8o vs Q9+, K5+--thats not a flip. 60/40..I think u have to take a 60/40. Of course he could have pair too but still. Yea. u have a point. Anyway, he had A5o. Hit his straight. I suck again.

k. once again, you're only posting hands where you're getting unlucky. fix that, obviously.

i said flip cuz its quicker than giving an actual range, and because its the connotation of the term, rather than the technical definition, that was my point. 5 people left, and there's one giant stack and the rest of you all sitting short. calling is a seriously unnecessary gamble. lose it and finish 5th, win it and not much changes

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03-25-2010 , 06:25 PM

#16

battster41

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 544

No I want to know if its a bad call. I would still post this hand even if I had won it. So what are you calling with here then??

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03-25-2010 , 06:27 PM

#17

ftn_chris

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,539

Quote:

Originally Posted by battster41

U not calling AT? 77+ here?

if he's shoving atc. probably 66-77+, AT+A9s+,KQs. thats atc.

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03-25-2010 , 06:28 PM

#18

BigGameDame

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 347

Quote:

Originally Posted by battster41

No I want to know if its a bad call. I would still post this hand even if I had won it. So what are you calling with here then??

Anyone who believes in ICM to the fullest (I believe in ICM, just not enough to fold here lol) is going to tell you that it is a horrible call

Anyone who believes in playing for first here is going to tell you its perfectly fine to get your chips in here just as long as you can reasonably give villan a very wide range.

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03-25-2010 , 06:30 PM

#19

battster41

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 544

ok, I had never seen his before and his scope numbers are very bad ..avg stake $162..445 games played..-8k profit.

He had been raising pretty wide earlier. What u calling with after knowing that info?

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03-25-2010 , 06:30 PM

#20

BigGameDame

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 347

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftn_chris

if he's shoving atc. probably 66-77+, AT+A9s+,KQs. thats atc.

lol he probably is shoving ATC if he thinks of BB as a monkey as BB started with 3bb's

That would be the only argument for folding here as if button does not see much FE from the BB spot then he probably isnt shipping super wide.

and A9s is wayyyyyy better that A8o, right?

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03-25-2010 , 06:30 PM

#21

slowTAOn

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftn_chris

What would change is that the big stack may not be so inclined to want to push the table around if we win this no? I mean I realize it's an unnecessary gamble in the sense that we have more of a chance of making people fold if we are the ones to go all in, but at the sametime the big stack is going to keep pushing marginal hands the longer we keep folding hands like A8.

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03-25-2010 , 06:31 PM

#22

BigGameDame

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 347

Quote:

Originally Posted by battster41

With that info i feel waayyyyyy better about calling off here, thats me though

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03-25-2010 , 06:34 PM

#23

battster41

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 544

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigGameDame

Yea, right. A9s soooo much better than A8o?! BTW I play for first. Also, if I double up here i almost assured HU. Or at least a pretty good chance. It's tough though but I think it's a call. I also use ICM but sometimes u have to make these type calls.

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03-25-2010 , 06:36 PM

#24

lordTasse

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 268

Quote:

Originally Posted by battster41

i love people who say **** like IM PLAYIN FOR FIRST YEAH
thats why the 180s still are fishy

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03-25-2010 , 06:36 PM

#25

relderretep

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,540

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigGameDame

lol love u icm donks

have fun with your small roi

lol. Knowing ICM by definition maximizes your ROI since it maximizes your $EV in every particular situation. Strictly "playing for the win" is ego-driven bull**** that results in more variance and a lower expected ROI.

This is an obvious fold.

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