Full Tilt Poker, $33 + $3 NL Hold'em Sit n' Go, 400/800 Blinds, 4 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

SB: 3,680
BB: 1,310
Hero (UTG): 820
BTN: 7,690

Pre-Flop: (800) K Q dealt to Hero (BB)

Seems like a horrible shove for sngwiz even if i adjust the range... but shove?

either way you're all all but all in next hand. i don't understand why this is even a question...KQs is a monster 4 handed so just push and pray.

This is a turbo shove.

LOL, what are you supposed to hope you get something better than KQs next hand?

EDIT - That being said, the current BB is about to be in as critical a situation as you. I still say this is an instashove though.

this spot is really tricky, everybody who just wants to scream instaturbo shove just didn´t get it, the reason why wiz says it´s a fold is cause BB is ****ed up as well he has < 2 BB and is in the big blind and will never get a walk, that said if he calls with 100% here when you fold, you have a good chance to fold into the money.

If you push at least BB will call you for sure and he got you covered, so you will have a hard time to make it ITM.

Play a little with the wiz ranges and you will see how things chance.

No way. I saw it but BB can fold this hand if somebody shoves on him and know that next hand if nobody opens he must open on you with a hand. I would rather VPIP 1BB with KQs than wait for 2 random cards which are going to be worse than KQ more often than not and have to put my money in.

if the BB will fold a lot to a shove from the others its a push yes and wiz will show it.

We will not get better cards in the next hand, but we have a good chance that our problems are solved till then

@OP it stands and falls with the BB, the other 2 bigstacks will never give them a walk and if he just think´s he has to call, it´s probably better to fold and pray that he busts

Sng wiz saids its a fold coz it plays all hands in a vacuum, it cant count in future action, that BB might fold and then you are 100% ****ed the next hand etc. But yes i turbo "push" this.

good points above about the bb's situation, but what about taking this line....

limping for 800( since you have no F.E.) then seeing what the other players do. It might give u a slightly better chance to get itm if the bigstack or Sb calls or even shoves and then the bb makes a donk call vs a shove, allowing u to fold.

Or if it goes to a flop and the lets says sb is in the pot (along w/ u and the bb), he bets and then bb calls, i wonder if it would be profitable for us to fold and pray he goes out (if we miss the flop obv.)....

meh awkward spot but in game i doubt i ever fold lol

As i said, i already adjusted the range before posting this.
I put BB calling top 5% if BTN or SB shove over him and wiz say that this is still horrible with KQs, diff -1.66 if BTN call 25% and SB 50% if i shove.

easiest shove ever

he i ran it also in wiz and under special circumstances the push was + 1,5% but you have to adjust every calling and overcalling range for every situation.

@ nudz if BB folds we can still double up, when we are in the BB and then he looks very bad

My first thought was "wtf instapush", but looking ahead a little:
If you fold, someone will shove on the BB and he will call or fold.. Obviously a call is fine for us as he might bubble. If he folds the next hand is typically this:

Btn: 3280
SB: 510
BB (hero): 820
UTG: 8890

I think this is quite a favorable situation for us.. Best case scenario UTG and Btn fold because they have no fold equity against hero, hero gets a 50/50 shot at busting SB right now and has a small but notable chance to outlast SB even if he loses the ATC vs ATC. If UTG is solid then he should often be pushing a huge range to gamble vs hero's ATC with a 400 chip overlay. Well, you're slightly under a coinflip to basically guarantee an ITM finish.

If you compare this scenario to the likely 3-way all in you'd get with KQs in the OP (which you would have to win to survive), it seems quite close to me. So.. interesting hand.

With a really bad hand, this is a fold for me and i hope the 2 big stacks will not give a walk to the short BB (sometimes, it's occurs...)

But with this hands, i def shove it

Maybe I need to get this Wiz thing so I can make a fold like this but.....

Seriously HOW is this a fold?

I mean I understand the implications of the structure and everything but I shove and hope for a call from K10s or something or QJo. You have a bullet or 2 with a double up PLUS here and can start using FE.

It's 1.5% if you consider something like BTN shoving atc and SB calling 20% (lol) or something like this. If you adjust every range it's clearly a bad shove for sng wizard and i still can't understand it but i suck at math...

my ego doesn't allow me to fold in that spot. The reasoning for folding is probably that button is going to shove ATC and the BB can fold some hands because he wants to get it in with you next hand. And if he does call biggie there is a very decent chance you get at least 3rd right now.