3$ - I need help on why bb shoves often is minus when sb limps. - MTT Poker Strategy

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3$ - I need help on why bb shoves often is minus when sb limps.

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06-21-2010 , 04:06 PM

mckrogh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 6,495

100/200 Blinds (6 handed)

Hero (BB) (t1530)
UTG (t3045)
MP (t1468)
CO (t2257)
Button (t1965)
SB (t3235)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10

, K

4 folds, SB calls t100, Hero bets t1330 (All-In)

Why is this such a bad shove according to wiz?

Villian is 35/20 and has a steal% from sb on 50%

Can someone explain my why this becomes -EV in the BB.

Whats the difference of shoving this from the sb and shoving this from bb when sb limps? Why do we need to shove tighter from BB when sb limps than when we are in sb and shoving into bb? Its a massive difference in wiz.

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06-21-2010 , 04:13 PM

rockchucker8

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,660

my guess is that you have the ranges set way too tight for sb's limp into you. how wide do you think he is limping here based on earlier play?

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06-21-2010 , 04:15 PM

mckrogh

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 6,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockchucker8

my guess is that you have the ranges set way too tight for sb's limp into you. how wide do you think he is limping here based on earlier play?

open 50% and call 18%

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06-21-2010 , 04:17 PM

elyk

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 315

You are a slight dog to his range however, I would shove this b/c he has shown weakness by limping.

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06-21-2010 , 04:30 PM

mckrogh

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 6,495

a slight dog? Actually i am in front vs a 50% range, but only slightly...

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06-21-2010 , 04:38 PM

Mariosgh

journeyman

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 206

there is the difference, because shoving when he limps is like you are shoving from sb with knowledge that he is holding top 50%. This 18% actually means that he will call you 36% of the time. When you would be on sb he would call 18%.

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06-21-2010 , 04:44 PM

elyk

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 315

Put the Vil's range @ 37% therefore you are behind only slightly.

(22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q9s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,86s+,76s,A2o+,K 9o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o,98o)

However, I do like a push b/c the limp is so weak.

If he is slow playing a monster so be it.

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06-21-2010 , 04:48 PM

mckrogh

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 6,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariosgh

Cool, gets meaning now! Thx for the explanation.

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06-21-2010 , 08:27 PM

GMINTZ

adept

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 968

KTo is almost never a bad shove in that spot unless the guy is a nit and is limping to induce. Loose players will limp a huge percentage of their range here and you are almost certainly going to be ahead with KTo if SB limps here.

If SNG Wiz has this as -EV you should check opponent call/shove ranges.

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06-21-2010 , 08:29 PM

#10

sippin_criss

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11,780

Standard shove, your problem is including all hands in the 50% hand range, when really he probably is raising 25%~ of hands.

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