($27) QQ against 3-bet by winning multitabler - MTT Poker Strategy

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($27) QQ against 3-bet by winning multitabler

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10-04-2009 , 07:23 AM

taipan168

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,740

Opp is a winning multitabler (Method999), I have thousands of hands of history with him. I'd say his 3-bet range here is like TT/JJ+, AK. Is this line too weaksauce?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 27 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB (t320)
UTG (t1480)
UTG+1 (t1890)
MP1 (t1440)
MP2 (t2410)
MP3 (t1510)
CO (t1430)
Button (t1500)
Hero (SB) (t1520)

Hero's M: 33.78

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q

, Q

UTG bets t60, 1 fold, MP1 calls t60, 2 folds, CO raises to t240, 1 fold, Hero calls t225, 3 folds

Flop: (t630) 6

, K

, 3

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets t390, Hero folds

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10-04-2009 , 07:33 AM

Fat Afghan

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 636

i'd raise it up a little more pf. as played i'd let it go to method's raise, i'd say his range is nearer QQ, KK AA than TT AK+

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10-04-2009 , 07:36 AM

taipan168

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,740

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Afghan

i'd raise it up a little more pf. as played i'd let it go to method's raise, i'd say his range is nearer QQ, KK AA than TT AK+

Thanks for the reply Fat. I didn't raise preflop, I was in the SB and all the action happened before it got to me.

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10-04-2009 , 07:36 AM

jurrasstoil

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,743

Why are we even flatting pre when we are just barely - if at all - ahead of his 3betting range. This is just a super expensive setmine with huge reverse implied odds in case we flop an overpair.

Fold pre, i'm serious.

PS: unless UTG is a known spazz i'd be pretty surprised if he'd 3bet TT in that spot.

Last edited by jurrasstoil; 10-04-2009 at 07:44 AM. Reason: re-read my post, sounds (a bit) harsh. not intended tho.

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10-04-2009 , 07:39 AM

Deurdy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,646

I think you should fold this pf, you really can't play QQ profitably OOP against his range imo.

Wiz has this as a KK+ spot for shoving with the range you give for villain.

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10-04-2009 , 07:47 AM

taipan168

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,740

Yeah, on reflection I think you guys are right, strange as it sounds against the vast majority of players I think this is a spot to fold preflop.

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10-04-2009 , 08:29 AM

clownklauen

banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,409

his 3betrange against a random IP is not qq+
i agree with taipan more than with afghan here

sucks still somehow.its either fold or shove and i dont hate the shove neither.
i never flat though.just 2 options.and he just pays our qq with worse hands when tilted.

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10-04-2009 , 08:32 AM

emeriaa

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,238

I think this is pretty eazy fold pre-flop since first raise came from UTG and he can't have TT or JJ(or even AK) in his range unless hes bad or UTG is spewtard IMO. And theres soo little value for u to play QQ against QQ+(AK) OOP.

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10-04-2009 , 08:40 AM

taipan168

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,740

Quote:

Originally Posted by emeriaa

Whilst I agree it is most likely a fold preflop and I agree with your reasons, I wouldn't say that is a "pretty easy" fold preflop.

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10-04-2009 , 09:06 AM

#10

IFoldPktOnes

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,374

3betting a utg min raiser + 1 cold caller is a lot different than 3betting just a standard 3x utg raise imo. I think the range you put him on is completely dependent on the type of reg.

Flatting pre is sort of meh since you are OOP, but it can't really be terrible, esp if you have flatted them /w AA in similar spots in the past and there is some reg-v-reg metagame going on. QQ can be part of a balanced preflop range if you want, it just depends how you want to play, and whether it's even worth balancing your ranges against this particular reg.

Folding is fine too obv.

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10-04-2009 , 09:37 AM

#11

emeriaa

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,238

Quote:

Originally Posted by taipan168

Whilst I agree it is most likely a fold preflop and I agree with your reasons, I wouldn't say that is a "pretty easy" fold preflop.

I missed it was min raise. Thought it was 3x in L1. So I guess u could possibly put JJ and AK in his range but I still think most players would just call with them so his range is heavily weighted towards QQ+ IMO. But even if his range is JJ+Ak your behind that range + u are OOP.

Altought theres 2 player still left in the hand that are def increasing your value in the hand. And if/likely the players still left to act are bad theres good cahnce one or both will call 3-bet since there are already 2 players in the hand and fishes don't like to fold.

But yeah I change eazy fold to just fold

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10-04-2009 , 09:40 AM

#12

dave1mo

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,821

The fact that it's a miniraise in front of him obv means he's 3betting wider. That's a pretty key thing to remember, and I wonder if everyone who posted above realizes it was a minbet.

I haven't played against method in a long time, but I do think this is a very close play between shove/fold. I still lean towards fold, but it's definitely not easy.

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10-04-2009 , 09:43 AM

#13

Caramelldansen

banned

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,136

wtf is all this fold pre?

if you don't want to play OOP, shove this.

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10-04-2009 , 10:14 AM

#14

Fat Afghan

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 636

i missed it was a min-raise - and thought it was op raising utg too. i guess i should read posts more carefully before i reply.

method probably is raising wider JJ AK+ but i'd still lean towards folding here.

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10-04-2009 , 12:19 PM

#15

ICMIZER 3 Representative

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,656

i doubt there is TT in that range and id fold.

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10-04-2009 , 02:10 PM

#16

Ballerblockn

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 473

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Afghan

method probably is raising wider JJ AK+ but i'd still lean towards folding here.

I have to agree here, he is loose but it's going to be better to wait until later levels to make a move on him. He makes a lot of late game mistakes so it's going to be fine to wait and lay this down when you feel beat.

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