This hand really confused me. Cold-caller seems like a competent enough multitabler, but I'm not really sure -- have just started playing these. On my last SB, he had opened to 500 UTG and I had shoved over him and he folded. Other than that, I don't have a super idea of how he sees me, except maybe he thinks I call re-raises light because earlier in this tourney I opened to 3xbb with KJo in SB and insta-called BB's 14xbb eff re-shove (please hold your ez fold comments thx).

I obviously thought a lot about shoving, but the raise seems suspicious, the big stack may be fed up with me, and there's a real short stack in the SB.

I'm thinking that since I called I should maybe have led the flop.

Anybody fold? I know that sounds kinda crazy but I even considered that.

Haha oops...here's the hand!

Poker Stars $25+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: t990 M = 3.30
Hero (BB): t5175 M = 17.25
CO: t2025 M = 6.75
BTN: t5310 M = 17.70

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is BB with T T
CO raises to t600, BTN calls t600, 1 fold, Hero calls t400

Flop: (t1900) J 4 8 (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: (t1900) K (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN bets t850, Hero folds, CO folds

Strange hand, not entirely sure what's best here but i think i play it cautiously like u did cuz both CO and BTN's play is fishy.

This seems like a good spot to lead the flop for about ~800. Maybe a bit out of the box, but could work.

You will force CO to make a decision for his whole stack on the bubble, so if he shoves your stack is still in tact and you can be sure he's ahead seeing he will mostly not risk shoving air with shorty around. Same goes more or less for the BTN. Yes, he can exploit you by shoving, but he may not necessarily choose to do so, especially since he cannot know you're folding (seeing the earlier mentioned hand). So you're either taking down a sizeable pot or still in good shape.

As played fold turn.
Pf is fine imo.

I would probably shove with the short stack as a leverage. It looks very strong to the big stack since I doubt he takes you as a complete idiot for doing light shoving/calling x times in a row. Plus if the original raiser does call and you are in bad shape, you still have a decent stack - short stack is ~5BB, right? If you get called by the large stack, you are flipping at worst imo, as I don't see how he can be cold calling with JJ+. If anything a lead out is the worst, imo. What does it accomplish etc? If there was a spot where the big stack gets fed up with you making moves it's the flop.

Btw, my post is for my own education rather.

*Further thinking about it: I kinda see BTN cold calling with JJ+. But still don't we still show profit by shoving in this spot vs BTN? (Considering the CO folds)?

I want reads on the CO specifically, don't see what should be particularly scary about the cold call here, evidently BTN doesn't want to isolate into the other biggy so he just flatted hoping to get it HU with maybe.....idk AJ/AQ/88-JJ?
Actually it makes little sense.

CO must be f'ed in the head to raise here with a loose enough range to make TT a call though...it looks like you should be folding preflop to anyone sane
If he's loose and is one of those guys that doesn't understand ICM till he has half his stack in the middle then realises he should fold.... then shoving TT preflop seems good


As played I suggest a little donk of 850ish like Deurdy mentioned

I just like the idea that the CO is sandwiched, which ties his hands considerably. Plus, again, even if the hero is in bad shape, he has x3 the short stack... To push this idea even further - isn't this a good spot for a squeeze with literally top %50 of your hands or something? ICM wise?
Entim: can you elaborate on the donk bet a bit? I can't see it's strength at all for some reason...

I mean: so you bet ~850: a) CO shoves 1425; you pray for the BTN to fold, when he does, you ARE calling 625 into a 3200 pot, right? b) CO folds 1425 (while the pot is 1900) - which is kind of silly; BTN shoves - you fold. c) CO shoves, BTN calls, you cringe and fold... d) CO folds BTN calls/shoves - you ultimately fold... How are these in the average better than a shove pre?

a) of course, but we fold out his AK/AQ which is definitely in his range if he doesn't want to go broke with them preflop
(although like I said anyone sane is super strong here, it's prolly a fold pre)

b) as stated before we expect BTN to come over the top pretty tight here given he's multitabling&strong ICM factors.

c) we like this, BTN is flatting pretty tight here so we can assume to be beat, or even call and check it down.

d) this one is nasty yes

They are not better than a shove pre.
Just better than check/folding it down....for one, BTN has position so he can make the exact same move that we are for the pot with possibly a worse hand


If CO is opening wide then I'm all for shoving pre, but he should be SUPER tight here, making it a fold. It would depend on his stats.

Simple; in none of the above cases we bubble.

BTN Cold calling AA or KK w/a big pair with hero to act is very possible. I think the hand is fine as played, given it's difficult to play multiple streets deep oop.

Yeah I think I shoulda probably led the flop. I have not been out of line postflop yet so they will have no reason to think I'm FOS. I don't have a read on CO's raise, so while it's certainly suspicious, he could also just have a hand he doesn't feel comfortable open folding but that he doesn't want to risk his whole stack with given the shorty. Something like 44 or A8.

So I am reasonably likely to have the best hand, the CO is EXTREMELY unlikely to bluff raise me because either he has AA or was playing scared preflop as described above, in which case why would he suddenly spazz on the flop, especially with the button still to act and a chance of confrontation between the big stacks. I don't think he's ever folding better but I think he probably just folds hands as good as 99 and maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe even A8, which in this situation is nice.

The button is a bit more likely to bluff raise I suppose, but again, I haven't been out of line postflop, and it would be very reasonable for me to have a Jack and decide to lead it.

So, even though I'm kind of turning my hand into a bluff, I think betting this flop is good as there's a fair chance it's missed both and I'm putting bubble pressure on both, especially CO.

I think I evolved a bit. )) I mostly agree with entim and others - I'm thinking there's no way CO opens with even a hint of light, but if he's real smart and insightful and a little sick he can do just exactly that, making it all meta - hence the need for any read. But just to simply kind of quantify, what's the 1. % for squeezing, folding or calling pre? 2. % of ~donk-betting or c/f 'ing?