Blah I hated this flop... still c-bet here though right? Obv can't fold after i do, so I essentially committed myself PF if I am going to c-bet here...

Should I have played this any different? I want to get as much value out of QQ as possible here, but that means getting it on on some nasty flops (especially if its checked back to me)

Thoughts?

Full Tilt Poker $22 + $2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t40/t80 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: t1185 M = 9.88
CO: t1550 M = 12.92
BTN: t1140 M = 9.50
SB: t2320 M = 19.33
BB: t1740 M = 14.50
Hero (UTG): t975 M = 8.12
UTG+1: t1860 M = 15.50
UTG+2: t1320 M = 11
MP1: t1410 M = 11.75

Pre Flop: (t120) Hero is UTG with Q Q
Hero raises to t200, 7 folds, BB calls t120

Flop: (t440) T K A (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t240, BB calls t240

Turn: (t920) 3 (2 players)
BB bets t240, Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to t535 all in, BB calls t295

River: (t1990) 2 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Well... you have two options here imo, shove pre, or raise 4.5bb and shove every flop (except maybe this one... c/c cry... more edits, I also wouldn't suggest gongo-ing here if either of the blinds are stupid **** stations). As played, but this is prob the one flop you should c/f with QQ 12.5bb deep after 2.5bb raising pf.

+1

As played, c/f

if there was ever a flop not to cbet, this is it. i would just try to check down and get to showdown for cheap. ur not really betting for value imo and ur never getting better hands to fold. its an awful spot but theres no need to throw away ur last 10 bbs here.

Flop check and fold to medium bet on turn. I don't see any reason why the pf raise should be bigger. Shoving isn't optimal.

this. I don't get the flop bet at all. Even turn should prolly be a snapfold on this horrendous board.

pf i just openship tbh, 12bbs i'm shipping my entire range here

Blinds were about to go up which means that I would be stuck at ~7bb if I c/f here...

Villain was a random with 30/21 over like 32 hands... I figured I could get value out of a club here, and still be willing to get it in. If I put villain on a relatively weak range like 88-22,ATs-A2s,K7s+,J8s+,T8s+,98s,87s,76s,ATo-A8o,KTo+,JTo,T9o, I have 59% equity on this flop... IMO its worth getting it in here given the size of my stack/the size of the pot...

FWIW, in game I was thinking more in terms of getting value out of any of his draws...


I also feel like we lose a lot of value open shoving 12bb pf... I'd rather raise it up even though we risk hitting boards like this

that's some pretty thin value imo

sure, but he's not going to check down anything that beats me, and he might fold out some worse hands... if I check, he might bet those worse hands to get me out

eh, this should be a pretty scary flop for him too if he has Ax/Kx w/o a decent club

That is like..always.. the case when you raise pre.

I don't mean to jump to conclusions, but from what I can draw here it sounds like you should investigate your C-betting game. Look what others are doing. There are many reasons to check in this and similar spots

At best he is going to fold 25-30% of his range on that flop and almost every part of his range that continues on this flop has you absolutely crushed. Just think about his flatting range, you'll only fold out pairs and JT w/o a club, and that is just not enough to cbet profitably.

@50cent
players that flat a 12bb stack's UTG raise will usually not fold KJxx or A9s on that flop.

true, you don't want to do that play because then you get a flop like that and how do you play that? maybe you get outplayed then.

so IMO, next time PFAI

i dont think hes going to turn hands worse than urs into a bluff very often. often times, assuming hes not a good player, hes going to be just as weary of this flop as you are.

I wish I could erase this thread and start a new one with the actual results to see if i get different responses... Villain turned over 88 w/o a club. I obv don't have a lot of info on the player, but I can assume based off his stats that he's pretty bad. I don't want to be results oriented here, but I feel like its worth getting it in vs a villain like this than leave myself w ~7 bb at 50/100

Below is vs top 50% of hands approx.

491,040 games 0.016 secs 30,690,000 games/sec

Board: As Ks Ts
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 54.549% 51.90% 02.65% 254863 12996.00 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, A2o+, K4o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
Hand 1: 45.451% 42.80% 02.65% 210185 12996.00 { QdQh }

I think his range is smaller than this, but wouldn't u be willing to get it in as a 45% favorite w/ the stack sizes/size of the pot?

i think ur being a little results oriented atm, but what stats did you have on him? you didn't give us any in the op.

^^^

jeez im blind. I guess there are some hands you could go for value agaisnt a 33/21, but still just seems a little thin to me. If you're willing to get it in, why not check flop, call off turn and at least let him bluff it off.

i just shove pre. whenever i try and get fancy with a big hand and like 10-15bbs, it always seems to back fire (even tho it always seems to work for 'tards).