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0 MTT - Big Hand and a Questionable Call 0 MTT - Big Hand and a Questionable Call

05-19-2016 , 11:01 PM
I feel like this situation is extremely borderline, but I'd like to stop over-analyzing it in my head and hear some opinions and other thought processes. Thanks for reading...

Starting stack to this tournament is 8k. 20 min levels.

I'm at level 9 w/ 67000 stack. Blinds are 200/800/1600.

My Hand: Qh Qd

As there is 9 players at the table, there is 4200 in the pot before the hand starts (1600 BB + 800 SB + 1800 Antes).

Player A, classified as "aggressive" entering a good amount of pots is first in the pot from UTG+2, who bets 4000.

From MP, I look down at two red Queens and decide to 3-bet to 11000. I feel that I definitely have the best hand at this point.

Player B, classified as "hyper-aggressive" and has been shoving lots, goes all in over his BB to 23000 (not including BB). I was expecting, and loving, this shove.

Now Player A shoves his stack in the middle for 37000.

Here's where I wonder: What should I have done?

As of now, there's about 75200 in the pot (4200 + 11000 + 23000 + 37000) and I only need to call 26000 more (37000 - 11000).

The pot odds are almost exactly 3:1 at this point (75200:26000), and a call would still leave me in the tournament with an above average stack, but would be a sizable, ~60% hit.

I start to wonder about Player A's range, and I conclude he has JJ, KK+, or AK. I rule out QQ because of my blockers. I beat two of four of these hands.

I assume Player B's range is much more wide.

But here I am. I am table chip leader and have been playing great and running great up to this point. Do I make the call and risk 60% of my stack?
0 MTT - Big Hand and a Questionable Call Quote
05-19-2016 , 11:16 PM
Firstly, I think you're exactly right, this is a very close hand. I think JJ, is an insta muck, and I run with KK+.

A couple of things:

I don't think player B will be that wide. Sure he has only 15BB left, but he's not just shoving over an OR, he's shoving over a 3b, and knows you're almost certain to call it if OR folds, i.e. he has no fold equity, so I don't think he's doing this with say 77. I'd put his range close to OR.

OR is then pilling on top of that. I think it's JJ if you're lucky.

BTW - what's your image?

I think it's a very marginal fold if you've not been out of line, but given the pot odds I'm not sure I ever find it.
0 MTT - Big Hand and a Questionable Call Quote
05-19-2016 , 11:54 PM
Thanks. Definitely a good point about Player B. I think perhaps in the back of my mind I was just prepared to call him if Player A folded. But yes, his range definitely improves shoving over a 3-bet.

Glad you asked about my image. Image was probably aggressive. I was running really well with cards and I made sure to bet most everything, which allowed me to muck more often and balance my range. I was also 3-betting some A-X type hands here and there from OOP. I was also getting to showdown with some monsters. I hit Quad 9's on a flop that I showed, and I also showed when I flopped 7's full on a 6 7 6 board but COOLERED by Quad 6s by the guy on my left. I also showed I was capable of bluff-catching when I found a call for my tournament life w/ 2 pair against straight and flush draws hitting on the river.

Player A was at my table from the start, so he saw all of these hands. Player B was moved to our table but there for about 20-30 mins prior to this hand.

In this hand, I ended up making the call.

Player A: KK
Player B: 66

Board: 2 8 2 K T

So Player A turns a boat to have me drawing dead on the turn and gets a huge boost to his stack. I don't entirely regret this call but I think I would have rather chose a fold in retrospect. Obviously... haha.

Thanks!
0 MTT - Big Hand and a Questionable Call Quote
05-20-2016 , 05:16 AM
people with AK and JJ pause and think a little in these spots. if player A doesn't, he's reliably KK+
0 MTT - Big Hand and a Questionable Call Quote
05-20-2016 , 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davo2323
Thanks. Definitely a good point about Player B. I think perhaps in the back of my mind I was just prepared to call him if Player A folded. But yes, his range definitely improves shoving over a 3-bet.

Glad you asked about my image. Image was probably aggressive. I was running really well with cards and I made sure to bet most everything, which allowed me to muck more often and balance my range. I was also 3-betting some A-X type hands here and there from OOP. I was also getting to showdown with some monsters. I hit Quad 9's on a flop that I showed, and I also showed when I flopped 7's full on a 6 7 6 board but COOLERED by Quad 6s by the guy on my left. I also showed I was capable of bluff-catching when I found a call for my tournament life w/ 2 pair against straight and flush draws hitting on the river.

Player A was at my table from the start, so he saw all of these hands. Player B was moved to our table but there for about 20-30 mins prior to this hand.

In this hand, I ended up making the call.

Player A: KK
Player B: 66

Board: 2 8 2 K T

So Player A turns a boat to have me drawing dead on the turn and gets a huge boost to his stack. I don't entirely regret this call but I think I would have rather chose a fold in retrospect. Obviously... haha.

Thanks!
Shoving 66 there by player b is completely moronic given he has no fold equity.
0 MTT - Big Hand and a Questionable Call Quote
05-20-2016 , 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
people with AK and JJ pause and think a little in these spots. if player A doesn't, he's reliably KK+
This. his timing is a pretty reliable tell in live events. You made it sound like he couldn't wait to get his chips in the pot.

Still, I'm not sure I can talk myself into folding here.
0 MTT - Big Hand and a Questionable Call Quote
05-25-2016 , 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachman42
This. his timing is a pretty reliable tell in live events. You made it sound like he couldn't wait to get his chips in the pot.

Still, I'm not sure I can talk myself into folding here.
Yeah, I think that was another marginal situation as he did stare at me (thru sunglasses) for a quick second before shoving all-in. I felt like the timing was yet another marginal thing about this marginal hand. I'm definitely going to make a note to pay very close attention to this timing in this spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchens97
Shoving 66 there by player b is completely moronic given he has no fold equity.
Yeah, his demeanor was that of "can't wait to get outta here". Definitely not something you see in many online hands at this stage of the tournament, but that factored in to how and why I thought his range was so wide. I agree it wasn't a good play on his part, but I'll take it!
0 MTT - Big Hand and a Questionable Call Quote

      
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