Villain is 25 / 19 / 6 - 3bet / 9 -resteal (400 hands).
Winning reg at this abi.

Can`t remember the dynamics (it was few days ago), but the question is more technical I think.
PT shows I was playing 21 / 17 / 9 - 3bet / 47 - Steal till this level of blinds inclusively.


PartyGaming - $20+$2|5000/10000 NL - Holdem - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: 103,736.00
BB: 587,648.00
Hero (BTN): 172,616.00

SB posts ante 1,000.00, BB posts ante 1,000.00, Hero posts ante 1,000.00, SB posts SB 5,000.00, BB posts BB 10,000.00

Pre Flop: (18000.00) Hero has A 5

Hero raises to 20,000.00, fold, BB calls 10,000.00

Flop: (48000.00, 2 players) 7 7 K
BB checks, Hero bets 25,500.00, BB raises to 51,000.00, Hero ......


We got PO 1,8-1 to 3bet-shove flop.
Much sooner he`s raising w Kx rather than 7x, so we can think A is out too.

And we can shove flop w 44% equity. But does ICM can change it?

I used nash calculator, but it seems it`s not the case to use it.
HoldemResources.net Results


Structure:
1500
900
500

shove pre

^^ this.
as played you can go for it.

shove pre is unexploitable. fold now seems silly.

I don`t want to just shove pre with the short stack on SB.

BB would be calling wide and I`m just a slight favourite against the most of his calling range.

no, but its profitable. def shove now

thats the one, need to reread that glorious shove by djk123 lol

this **** is so lol-backward i don't even know where to begin

you seriously need to post less and read more

shove preflop with 17 bigs. but as played get it in on flop. and i wouldnt count a 7 out of his range considering your min-raise preflop gave him nearly 4:1 to play the pot. givin the fact you have the flush draw and almost a third of your stack in the middle you get it in

Listen bloke, probably it`s better to shove pre, but my question was about ICM and how it can affect my decision otf.

Open your eyes, read the thread name carefully, think a bit and then open your gob, ok?

You should be prepared to consider how you got to the flop as well as what to do when you get there.

That said I'm not sure why people want to jam pre, I also don't understand why someone distinguished jamming pre as being profitable but not unexploitable as I'm pretty sure it's both.

You can call on the flop?

seems like a fold pre to me cause any other option seems -$EV. we basically gain nothing (ok we gain 20 bugs if both fold) by shoving unless SB calls with a dominated range and if BB calls wide (since we r/c the top and shove from BTN + he can effort it) thats a snapfold > every option.

current $EV value: 888
we shove, both fold $EV value: 909

might limp sometimes or r/f with reads (r/c shorty unless nit)

once you created a large pot with a marginal hand and have decent equity even vs his r/c range you should not call or fold.

A2s is a Cev unexploitable jam there from memory, not sure about $ev with regards to ICM etc.

Why?

i think on this texture he will r/f air vs a cbet quite often and r/c worse heart draws, íf he has a K or 7 we still have outs.
also our equity vs his Kx and 7x is best OTF.
~75% of the time turn will be a blank and what then?
~5% of the time we get it in with more equity vs his Kx OTT and less equity vs his 7x when we hit the A
~20% of the time we hit the flush

flop seems like b3b>all other options with 17BB.
hope that makes some sense, wwyd on flop > b3b? check behind?

You can do the ICM calcs though for calling and stacking off on some turns. I can't at the moment but I think given the stack of the SB we can fold a smaller stack than we may like because of the $ equity we retain.

I actually don't know without doing the ICM whether I prefer getting it in or calling but I think calling is worthy of consideration.

If we're super worried about ICM here, would it be such a horrible play to flat his min-raise and try to bink for cheap and c/fold if we miss?

we're getting 5/1 and folding later leaves us with the same stack as the SB so it seems a perfectly reasonable line to take.

We could always check back flop as well

Nash tells it`s profitable for BTN to shove 16.8% (A3s+).
Link in OP.

Is it just our share of total chips?

I think it`s r/f pre and nothing else, considering ICM.
They`re too straight forward.
If we don`t worry about ICM, it`s a shove.

That`s what I just want to type. Furo, I would have forgotten about 7x. No way he has it. Probably raising some PP.

Also think b/3b > b/c. Call seems too spewy. Villain would shove turn and we`d have to gamble (or sooner to just fold).

Agreed.
If we want to play b/c otf, I think it`s better to check it behind.

don't mind limping pre tbh

@dereds if he is never bluffing or never bluffing from turn on i think b/c is > b3b for the reasons you gave. check behind is reasonable as well.
ingame i'd b3b on that texture tho since i expect the bigstack to not just c/f.

Yeah shove pre, it's not terrible to minr either against partydonks in a 22 as long as you always snap jam flop over the lolraise