Both players were LAG donks 42/19 for the first guy and 29/10 for the second guy. I didnt think an ace gets checked x3 for both of them, and this is the kind of board where they may find a call with 9s-Qs. Do you like a vb on the river and for how much?

Also pf 3bet was a mis-scroll or mis-notice as I wouldnt have made it 600 if i noticed the flatter

Party Poker $210 USD Buy-in No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: t1680
MP: t4005
CO: t2255
Hero (BTN): t2710
SB: t3330
BB: t2270
UTG: t3750

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with K K
UTG raises to t200, 1 fold, MP calls t200, 1 fold, Hero raises to t600, 2 folds, UTG calls t400, MP calls t400

Flop: (t1800) 2 3 A (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t1800) 8 (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks

River: (t1800) 6 (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, [color=red]Hero

I think 600 is a realy poor 3bet size anyways. What are you going to do if an ace flops and villain shoves? I think you priced yourself in to call.

Also something is wrong with the flop pot size, it should we 1950

You are playing for my bankroll here, so not sure if I can help. But I am betting 600 here.

i wouldnt value bet if you make a small one and the short stack shoves you have to call...IMO this is an easy check down with 2 OPP...i would maybe think about a value bet if the river came a J or Q but most likely would still just check it down

I would probably value bet like 750ish cuz I'm pretty sure 2 lagtards would not be checking an ace down especially with the flush draw on the turn.

Dude i said that i made a misclick or didnt notice that there was a flatter pf and my 3bet sizee was a mistake.

As played, with 21 bbs (starting stack) behind going to the flop, if a guy shoves an ace high flop oop into 2 players you think i have to call? I def disagree, especially since they both cover.

Also, if you are going to say that you dont like the bet sizing, next time suggest what you think should be done instead or just post in other peoples threads.

^ Not trying to sound as rude as that might come off, but im not sure how else to put it ^

I think you always have the best hand and I shove the river for value to try and get a spaz call from like 99.

if you think you'll get called by worse (99-JJ), sure, go for it.
If you think one of them wants to bring Axs to showdown its prolly not the best idea to bet. There are not many worse hands you will get value from and not so many better hands that will check all the way down, so i'd say betting and checking are very close in the longrun. 600-750 is about what i'd bet, but this turns your hand face up imo and every thinking player will toss JJ.

a lot of worse hands call here, i would probably make some kind of gay bet like 400-500 so any pair will pay you off

list 'em pls

See OP

Hmm, i guess "a lot" is pretty relative then... because i don't think 99-QQ is "a lot" and i'm not sure if lagdonks really a) minraise/call QQ or b) flatcall/call QQ.

But do you think they check an ace on three streets? Or in the case of the guy in the middle, a set on the turn/river? I think his hand looks alot like a mid pair to jj, but you can never REALLY know with terribad players

any pair...

It is possible they have A7 but I think their range is heavily weighted toward mid pocket pairs. The value gained from those hands is greater than when they show up with a super passively played Ax. I really don't even think it is close, even if they did have an ace in this particular spot

Cash game, yeah... SNG, as tight and nitty as (I think) everyone plays, I'm tempted to say no, BUT... against the particular villains you describe I like throwing 750 out there.

I would usually value bet small.

But if MP is DonAmaro he is probably capable of a c/r bluff on the river imo.

42/19 does not generally coincide with "thinking player"

Maybe i'm off, but i don't see QQ in their range at all.
The only set that would make sense is 66, but i think a lagdonk would bet that 100% of the time. I don't see 77 or worse calling your bet on the river, so they have pretty narrow calling ranges.
The fact that it's multiway gives them a chance to get away from hands like TT. Say UTG has TT, then he will fold it more often than in a HU pot, because MP is still left to act.
I'll stick with my thought that it is really really close in the longrun. The times you lose 600+ additional chips the times someone wants to bring his raggy suited Ace to showdown or messed up with a set will even out the times worse pairs call your thin "i have a high pair"-rivervaluebet.

Bet small its pretty obvious you don't have an ace too so like other people said you'll get called by a lot of worse pairs.

I don't know how this got mixed up?

I was saying that I still wouldn't make it 600 even if there was no flatter in between, and that you would be committed to call a shove once the original PF raiser shoves into you in a HU pot. You can't realy call a small bet and then fold to a turn shove either imo.

on an A high flop or pf? That you are commited with KK pf is self-evident, but on an A high flop with 20bb behind, i'm not sure...

with the extra caller I would shove, they will put you on a small PP and call with stuff like TJs

Let's try to minimize this very unhelpful reply- if you have nothing to contribute to a thread, simply say nothing.

Also, please read the entire OP before replying to posts- most good contributing high buy in regulars don't post here much anymore, and I'm not sure if it's because people don't read what they write/ignore what they write, or if for other unrelated reasons relating to the general decline in the forum quality.

the pot will be 13.5BB, and also for PF It's so obvious you can't fold to a shove, so you can't realy 3bet/fold anything in your range. You are committing yourself (even in a HU pot) to your hand without really putting all the chips in, wheras villain only has to commit 10% of his stack to see a flop.

There really isn't much value in me saying what I would do, what matters is the reasoning behind it. Stop wanting cookie cutter answers as to what you should do and start appreciating the discussion about why imo.

There is so much more value in me argueing why I think the 3bet size is good/bad then me saying what i would do, so my reply isn't useless at all.

On that same note, I always hate it when people just say what they would do and not argue about why, I always figure people are reluctant to give away that valueable information, but it turns out that I am the only one who thinks it is more important to know how different variables go into descissions then to know what somebody else should do...

To illustrate this further with an example, when the stack size would be just a bit deeper or swallower, the optimal 3betting size becomes different and if you just want to copycat what somebody else would do you would only make your betsizing correct in this exact same spot and would never learn how to adjust to different stack sizes.