$16 QQ post flop against a reg - MTT Poker Strategy - Multi Table Tournament Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy No Limit Tournaments

$16 QQ post flop against a reg

Post Reply Subscribe

...

09-04-2009 , 12:45 AM

waterwolves

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 11,557

I don't have much for a read. Villain is a slight winner. I feel like folding but I am not sure what the right play here is.

Thoughts?

Poker Stars $15+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: t1765 M = 23.53
UTG+1: t1490 M = 19.87
UTG+2: t1420 M = 18.93
MP1: t1415 M = 18.87
MP2: t1300 M = 17.33
CO: t1505 M = 20.07
Hero (BTN): t1390 M = 18.53
SB: t1865 M = 24.87
BB: t1350 M = 18

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is BTN with Q

3 folds, MP1 raises to t150, 2 folds, Hero calls t150, 2 folds

Flop: (t375) T

(2 players)
MP1 bets t200, [color=red]Hero?

Quote

09-04-2009 , 01:05 AM

AnfieldRoad

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,461

I don't think a reg exists where this isn't either a shove preflop or on the flop.

Against most, including relatively unknown ones, I'd ship pf.

They'll call with TT/JJ enough for it to be wildly profitable.

The thing about flatting is obv that we let the smaller pairs flop sets on us for free, as well as allow AK/AQ type hands pair their overs.

So come to think about it, I'm unsure about whether we should ever flat this pre.

Quote

09-04-2009 , 01:10 AM

waterwolves

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 11,557

Really? Maybe I have a huge leak then cuz against a reg flatting here is standard for me.

If I shove pre I am getting called by better and making then fold worse. He knows I am not shoving crap so he folds 1010-JJ and AQ maybe even AK and calls me with QQ+.

Now I am really confused.

Quote

09-04-2009 , 01:11 AM

AnfieldRoad

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,461

I'd be very surprised if they folded JJ or AK to you.

Quote

09-04-2009 , 01:12 AM

Jabong82

adept

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,121

I think a shove pre-flop here is best even against regs.

Quote

09-04-2009 , 01:29 AM

bagclip2007

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,671

i like pre, now shove!

Quote

09-04-2009 , 02:20 AM

TomoDaK

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,837

I am fine with flat or shove pre, not sure which is best vs a slight but unknown winner. I think how many tables you guys were on and if you've played before should be taken into consideration. Flop seems an easy shove to me, slight winner doesn't mean good they oft make many mistakes even pretty basic ones, he might snap you with AT

Quote

09-04-2009 , 03:58 AM

Deurdy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,646

I'd shove pf, but don't mind this either.
On this flop, I'd probably float, but I see you pushed..

Quote

09-04-2009 , 04:02 AM

Kecinpulach

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 544

Iam 3betting this pre/call a shove. Leak?

Quote

09-04-2009 , 04:11 AM

#10

AnfieldRoad

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,461

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kecinpulach

Iam 3betting this pre/call a shove. Leak?

I can't think of a single reason why this'd be better than shoving.

Quote

09-04-2009 , 04:26 AM

#11

buffyslayer1

Coach MTT

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,552

why flat pre, his not UTG which I could understand ur flat then. But his range is alot wider from MP.
As played this is a shove against anyone, and as AR already said JJ/TT are calling ur shove here

Quote

09-04-2009 , 04:37 AM

#12

clownklauen

banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,409

i rr or shove pre against 98% of the idiots who play REGularly.
i typically fold against the 2% but i think i didnt flat queens even once.

i still think bagclips post hits the nail and that you play it fine, now just lol dont even worry bout gertting em all in the middle.

and sidenote, please include the nick in the post.makes it easier to give a strong opinion

Quote

09-04-2009 , 07:03 AM

#13

Kecinpulach

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 544

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnfieldRoad

I can't think of a single reason why this'd be better than shoving.

Well If happens I have laggy image early I can sometimes induce 4bet from hands worse than JJ or TT that would fold to push like AQo or 99.

Quote

09-04-2009 , 07:08 AM

#14

TwistedEcho

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 7,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kecinpulach

Well If happens I have laggy image early I can sometimes induce 4bet from hands worse than JJ or TT that would fold to push like AQo or 99.

This only happens if you are a fish and they are shoving for value, or they suck.

Quote

09-04-2009 , 07:10 AM

#15

AnfieldRoad

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,461

Really?

I mean, the guy would have to be so terrible to think there's FE when you three bet to what should probably be around 1/3 of effective stacks.

Show me two hands where a winning reg does this in a similar situation.

Then try and argue that they'd fold those same hands if you had shoved

Quote

09-04-2009 , 07:31 AM

#16

Kecinpulach

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 544

You guys are convincing.

So do you think that villain´s calling range of our push is the same as his 4betting range? I am just guessing if either is better. Maybe he would fold TT to 3bet because we show more strenght than by pushing or from the other point of view he would 4bett AQs because he smells some FE.

Quote

09-04-2009 , 07:42 AM

#17

AnfieldRoad

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,461

If anything his calling range is wider, as most lolregs like to threebet small with nuts and shove the weaker hands they play.

Quote

09-04-2009 , 07:52 AM

#18

Ronny Mahoni

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,452

As I mostly play 6.50s I dont have a lot experience with regs, but they really call with TT/JJ? IDK, JJ looks very marginal at best, but calling with TT has to be really bad. I like the flat pre, and shove flop line.

Quote

09-04-2009 , 08:56 AM

#19

RagzToRiches

banned

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 3,958

I shove pre too, wolves. Think mentor would also lol. Praps flat/3bet mix it up for a laggy spazmo

Quote

09-04-2009 , 01:02 PM

#20

AMT

Charlie Brown of MTTs

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 17,745

I know this has been mentioned before (I'm sure most of you realize), but this thread reminds me...

It's pretty important not to group all 'regs' into one category (or any category really), as there are so many bad and mediocre/breakeven regs with specific, big leaks in their game, and of course other solid or very good regs. Often the resulting analysis changes significantly in spots like this, so I just think it's pretty important to reiterate that 'reg' doesn't mean 'good' or 'afraid to have QQ' or anything similar necessarily.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...