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, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. , multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please.

07-05-2009 , 05:04 AM
Only 2 regs in this session and a lot of loose-passive players. One reg folded (MP1), the other in in the BB (our own Gazillion). As such I figured there was a very big chance I could mine for a set relatively cheap here pf. So that's the first thing.

Flop is standard c/f imo.

Called the turn bet because I thought there was a good chance I was ahead and additionally had an OESD.

Then river, do I just call here, or is the shove ok for value, seeing that villains are not likely to have made a straight on a gutshot.

Anyway, comments appreciated on all streets. Flame away

Poker Stars $15+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: t1600 M = 21.33
UTG+1: t2115 M = 28.20
MP1: t2025 M = 27
MP2: t3450 M = 46
Hero (CO): t1590 M = 21.20
BTN: t600 M = 8
SB: t650 M = 8.67
BB: t1470 M = 19.60

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is CO with 6 6
UTG calls t50, UTG+1 calls t50, 2 folds, Hero calls t50, 1 fold, SB calls t25, BB checks

Flop: (t250) Q 4 7 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t250) 5 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets t100, UTG+1 calls t100, Hero calls t100, SB folds, BB folds

River: (t550) 6 (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets t300, Hero raises to t1440 all in,
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 05:14 AM
I think the turn call is spewy and river is spewy as well. Why do you think that a donk couldnt have a straight here? I would fold turn. As played just call river
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 05:16 AM
The only thing I'm not sure about is the shove for value. I'm not sure what would call you that would be worse. The other streets all look good to me.
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 05:17 AM
That villain was pretty horibble, and a quick SS confirms, so I think random 3s and 8s could realistically form part of his range, especially if he picked up some sort of pair+draw on the turn. I don't think I'm ever raising the river. Frankly I'm just happy to get a cheapish showdown where we have a ton of SD value. I know it's a cliché but I think the only hands that call you when you shove are hands that beat you.

As a sidenote, I had the best hand til the river. Shame I missed all the fun
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 05:22 AM
personally i really dont like the turn call, as the pot will not be heads up on the river. meaning if you miss the OESD or set then you cant really bluff into two players.

as played i dont mind the river shove to much, i guess alot of 2 pair hands will call and a str8 seems unlikely (maybe some Q8s hand i suppose). but i would probably just call to be sure some random 8 could be in there....
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 06:13 AM
I don't like this at all. On the turn you are barely priced in to call, but this being a SNG you need more of an overlay due to ICM tax. While there definitely is some additional value because of implied odds the board will look very scary if you hit and your hand is very transparent when you try to get paid off big. And the blinds could still c/r this turn.

River is complete spew imo, what hands could UTG+1 possibly have here?
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 06:54 AM
All looks ok until the river shove imo. I just flat the river.
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 09:41 AM
turn is whatever, you're getting 4.5:1 so it's only marginally bad, but against loose players you can probably make up the extra .5 in equity on the river if you hit.

river just flat - he was a caller on the turn, not the aggressor, so he can have a ton of hands here.
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 11:41 AM
Preflop: Standard

Flop: Standard

Turn: I find a fold here. You have 6 outs in my opinion, 3 non club 3s, 3 non club 8s and 2 sixes. You are a little over 5.25-1 to hit it and are only being offered 4.5 to 1. That is fairly close, but of with two players already in and two more behind you yet to play, I'm not even sure that the three 3s or the two sixes are good outs.

as played:
River: I prolly just call here. I hit one of my cards, but as I stated above, is it good enough?
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 01:12 PM
the call on the turn is a bit tough too.. there are still two players behind you and every of them could raise, but a call seems ok. did you honestly raise the river for value? its so likely that one ot both have a 3/8 i would fold the river. river shove is a pur bluff buddy nothing more lol. I dont think UTG1 is bluffing on the river in a sandwich position... this wouldnt make sense to me honestly, you are pretty sure confrontated with a random 8 or 3.
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 02:09 PM
I think the main reason why i don't like the turn call is because even if your straight hits, are you getting any extra value? Prob not...and if you think they are bad enough to where you WOULD get value, then who is to say they prob don't have there gutshot.
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGGRESSIVE.KID
did you honestly raise the river for value? river shove is a pur bluff buddy nothing more lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasons14
I think the main reason why i don't like the turn call is because even if your straight hits, are you getting any extra value? Prob not...and if you think they are bad enough to where you WOULD get value, then who is to say they prob don't have there gutshot.
I'm obv not bluff-raising river here against loose-passive calling stations, as said I expect bad players to call river here with any two pairs (there are a ton of those in their ranges) and sets.
That said, yes they are also bad enough to have 8s or 3s in their ranges, but in came I felt 2 pair combos were more likely than hit gutshots. Therefore I thought it would be ok for value.
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 02:29 PM
I would fold the river. I think you see a straight 75% of the time at least.
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-05-2009 , 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HajiShirazu
I would fold the river. I think you see a straight 75% of the time at least.
Really? You would fold a set here?
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-06-2009 , 01:36 AM
This is another example of why I don't like calling this turn, it puts you in a really tough spot on the river. A lot of your outs are tainted and with the the turn call probably around 0 EV I'd just fold and keep my decisions easy. Very accurate reads definitely help here but I never have those due to 16-tabling.
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-06-2009 , 02:39 AM
Just to add my 2cents:

I guess, I would have tried to make a play at the flop. If we have the best hand, then we should bet it at the flop and if not, we have position plus backdoor flush plus backdoor straight. So I think, I might have played something like t140 and hope to take it down. Tbh, I'm not sure how loose-passive the players at 16s are, just I would have tried. Obv, if your plan was setmining, then c/f the flop with 2 Overs is fine, too.

I probably would have called at the turn, too, just as the prize is nice, we still have position, nobody has shown a lot of strength and I'm a bit of a calling station, too.

What me fizzles a bit is the bet sizing of villain. He bets t100 into a pot of t250 with whole the family inside despite 2 possible flushdraws + a straight draw, and then when another scare card comes, he bets >half pot. This does not look like a blocking bet and it's a bit strange for a value bet, too. (Fishes that like to slowplay would probably again play small or make another weird betsize).
A pretty good explanation would be a busted flushdraw, not sure whether I try to make too much soulreading here.

So, probably just snap-calling him here is the right percentage play. If his bet would be more block-bettish, like t150, I'd try probably a small raise for value, but as said he already bets t300 what looks to me like he either has a lot or nothing and now a even a small raise would us committ, I guess.
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-06-2009 , 02:59 AM
I think call here is best. Tough to jam with the straight possibility.
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-06-2009 , 07:12 AM
River shove looks very spewy. Not only are you often beat, villain will also be terrified of a straight on that board, and hardly ever call with worse.
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote
07-06-2009 , 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD77
All looks ok until the river shove imo. I just flat the river.
i am in this camp too - no value in shoving as you wont be called by hands that dont beat you
, multiway pot, non-standard line, thoughts please. Quote

      
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