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, AQ, silly hand , AQ, silly hand

04-11-2010 , 03:03 PM
No known villains here. I felt flatting pre was too passive, although I have taken this line in the past. I decided to bump it up and would be more than happy to get it in if I hit the flop.

I miss so opt to cut my losses and c/f all the way.....until the river, where I started out-thinking what should be a pretty standard decision.

Just v/shove river right?


Poker Stars $15+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: t1570 M = 34.89
UTG+1: t1670 M = 37.11
UTG+2: t1450 M = 32.22
MP1: t1470 M = 32.67
MP2: t990 M = 22
CO: t1260 M = 28
BTN: t2200 M = 48.89
Hero (SB): t1410 M = 31.33
BB: t1480 M = 32.89

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is SB with Q A
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t30, 1 fold, MP2 calls t30, CO calls t30, BTN calls t30, Hero raises to t210, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls t180, MP2 calls t180, CO calls t180, 1 fold

Flop: (t900) 2 5 8 (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks

Turn: (t900) 7 (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks

River: (t900) Q (4 players)
Hero ?
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-11-2010 , 03:21 PM
I would never check at least. I don't think ''villans'' are capable of checking flop + turn with flush or sets.

If you were able to see your opponents checking, you could probably use the time they used to check as an indicator of any strong hands. Very few instacheck nuts.

I don't think shoving is bad, but I would rather bet very small (250ish) and call a raise. predict someone would just call with KQ (maybe 44/66?) etc. If you shove you are probably only called by hands that beat you.
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-11-2010 , 03:45 PM
well played, shove river imo.
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-11-2010 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeywik
I would never check at least. I don't think ''villans'' are capable of checking flop + turn with flush or sets.

If you were able to see your opponents checking, you could probably use the time they used to check as an indicator of any strong hands. Very few instacheck nuts.

I don't think shoving is bad, but I would rather bet very small (250ish) and call a raise. predict someone would just call with KQ (maybe 44/66?) etc. If you shove you are probably only called by hands that beat you.
We have the effective nuts here. doubt anyone shows up with a hand that beats us after checking through flop and turn.

I think this is missing out on huge value against random villains. any random with KQ/QJ/QT snaps off a shove, and probably only calls a small bet with QJ/QT (KQ prob raises). The only value I can see in betting like 250 is to induce spaz shoves.
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-11-2010 , 03:55 PM
A good line to me.
Now make a shove or some kind of value bet.
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-11-2010 , 04:36 PM
I'd bet 400ish
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-11-2010 , 07:23 PM
I dont like raising pre, as played 1/2 pot looks good.
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-11-2010 , 08:02 PM
Should be able to just shove now I think, but pf I think is crappy. I've been in the mood to check AK here lately which isn't normal.
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-11-2010 , 08:35 PM
Value shove looks good, I'd be shocked if no one has KQ or QJ. Think a shove is better than half pot because if someone does have KQ or QJ they'll call whatever bet you make so shoving gets the most value.
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-12-2010 , 01:01 PM
I'm throwing this out there as more of a question (please give me your feedback if you've posted itt especially if you only took one side). Isn't it important to mix up your shoves and value bets? particularly if you're playing with regs who might pick up on tendencies if you always shove or always value bet. Or do you feel this is the type of hand that you can only shove or only value bet?
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-12-2010 , 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercat32
I'm throwing this out there as more of a question (please give me your feedback if you've posted itt especially if you only took one side). Isn't it important to mix up your shoves and value bets? particularly if you're playing with regs who might pick up on tendencies if you always shove or always value bet. Or do you feel this is the type of hand that you can only shove or only value bet?
It is, but at $16 you are playing against randoms more than regs, and making the same standard plays is better than mixing it up. For instance in this situation, I'd be surprised if of the 4 people that were in the hand with him more than 1 was a reg. Better to take advantage of the randoms/semi-randoms than worry about regs getting a good read off of you.

If you are heads-up against a reg, then you might vary your play a bit, but not here.

Last edited by darnzy; 04-12-2010 at 01:26 PM.
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-12-2010 , 01:31 PM
limp pre, as played about 400 v bet river.
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-12-2010 , 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercat32
I'm throwing this out there as more of a question (please give me your feedback if you've posted itt especially if you only took one side). Isn't it important to mix up your shoves and value bets? particularly if you're playing with regs who might pick up on tendencies if you always shove or always value bet. Or do you feel this is the type of hand that you can only shove or only value bet?
Kind of a bad hand to ask this question, cause:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD77
No known villains here.

So we really dont need to mix up anything. If there is a reg in I really wouldnt care about him cause what can he have, that he plays this way, we get value from? Actually after pre, you can be pretty sure that there is no good reg involved, CO could be a reg with a pp, but if has a set he bets it somewhere. So I just try to get value out of the unknowns involved.
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-12-2010 , 01:47 PM
ye, just complete here, i thought you were the button.
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-12-2010 , 03:01 PM
I would never complete pre and like your raise size, BTW
, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-12-2010 , 03:05 PM
tooo many effin limpers, OOP... etc...

wutver raise should be fine on the river.
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04-12-2010 , 03:07 PM
well, i would prob complete pre (not too happy about that but imo are the downsides of raising here too big)

river: guess i would make it sth. around 1/2 pot. however can also see reasons to valueshove it (still prefer 1/2 pot though^^)

, AQ, silly hand Quote
04-14-2010 , 09:28 AM
R. Mahoni,

you're absolutely right about this hand, but my question is more general. Often we have the benefit of analyzing hands in depth in a thread here in the sttf. However, at the tables when you're 12-16 tabling you have 1-2 seconds really to make a decision and it needs to be routine/second nature.

In this particular hand, there is more to think about so I'm saying you maybe have 15-20 seconds at most to review everything thats gone on. That isn't enough time to investigate every player to see what their playing experience is. You just eyeball the table for any regs and act accordingly.

I typically value bet in these spots. Not b/c I'm afraid of the possible flush or straight, but b/c I play low stakes and I don't need to chase out players who will call with A5 or 66 for example. My original intention was to see how many other posters feel this is clearly wrong or clearly correct or feel a mixture of v betting/shoving is best.
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