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$16 AQ on bu after limp

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03-09-2010 , 08:48 AM

Kloppo05

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 177

villain 22/6 over 19 hands

He's limping 12 bb deep utg+1. Limp, raise or shove pre? I don't like how this hand developed postflop.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 16 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) (t1945)
SB (t1745)
BB (t1285)
UTG (t1050)
UTG+1 (t1240)
MP1 (t2325)
MP2 (t1260)
MP3 (t1520)
CO (t1130)

Hero's M: 12.97

Preflop: Hero is Button with A

, Q

1 fold, UTG+1 calls t100, 4 folds, Hero bets t350, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls t250

Flop: (t850) 2

, 2

, 6

(2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t850) 5

(2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

River: (t850) 8

(2 players)
UTG+1 bets t890 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: t850

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03-09-2010 , 09:09 AM

michty6

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,041

Tricky spot as SB has 17 BBs. I sometimes just shove this pre as there's a nice t350 in the pot.

If I'm raising it I'm making it more than t350, probably 400-450 so that villain has less than a pot sized bet in their stack. Then I'm putting them all in regardless of the flop.

I'm confused - why no cbet? I would've probably just put them all in on this flop as a cbet since we'd have to call if our cbet is raised anyway...

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03-09-2010 , 07:10 PM

Kloppo05

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by michty6

I'm confused - why no cbet? I would've probably just put them all in on this flop as a cbet since we'd have to call if our cbet is raised anyway...

I thought a lot of pps are in his range and I didn't want to shove a flop with ace high.

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03-09-2010 , 07:14 PM

CastleBravo79

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,626

You should probably ship it in on the flop. Even if you were tarped by a PP, you have 35%-ish equity and may even be called by something you dominate (most randoms are not folding AJ here). I do like raising a little more pre too. I would call river, this board just doesn't hit much at all and I expect you to have the best hand 50% of the time.

Limping behind pre is ok, but I prefer this line.

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03-09-2010 , 07:32 PM

djh860

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 726

C bet the flop who cares what it looks like toss some chips out these and try to make him fold.

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03-09-2010 , 07:41 PM

carpethead40

stranger

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8

c bet and call his all in... but def c bet he prob missed to and generally will lay it down

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03-09-2010 , 07:49 PM

daniel9861

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,390

22/6 is limping with way more than pocket pairs

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03-09-2010 , 08:01 PM

Gabler

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 7

i like making it 300 pre..im raising for value and my cbet will be smaller

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03-09-2010 , 08:15 PM

Kloppo05

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by daniel9861

22/6 is limping with way more than pocket pairs

Yeah but I think he is folding a lot of non-pps pre after my raise.

Quote

03-10-2010 , 01:08 AM

#10

Monty604

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 535

Quote:

Originally Posted by CastleBravo79

This or shove preflop if you're gonna be too passive post flop when you miss.

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03-10-2010 , 06:33 AM

#11

michty6

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,041

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kloppo05

Yeah but I think he is folding a lot of non-pps pre after my raise.

Not if he has really prreeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttyyyyy cards. Plus sooooted connectors play really well in all forms of poker regardless of stacks, ICM or anything as Daniel Negreanu said so so it must be true.

Last edited by michty6; 03-10-2010 at 06:33 AM. Reason: (My interpretation of many players thought process)

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03-10-2010 , 07:15 AM

#12

NCFCRulz

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,751

Make the Pre Raise 400, and you MUST c-bet that flop, and call the shove if it comes.

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03-10-2010 , 07:47 AM

#13

mauzeriz

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 322

Firstly it is a perfect board to CB, and it is big mistake to check it. I laike raise pre flop here and i am not shoving it pre. Good as played but definatly CB flop.

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03-10-2010 , 08:23 AM

#14

HogMajor

banned

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 153

All depends what you want to represent. Id personally call any 2 and float a queen high flop. Then obv re-bluff a dry turn.

Pretty sticky hand alright.

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03-10-2010 , 08:35 AM

#15

michty6

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,041

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogMajor

All depends what you want to represent. Id personally call any 2 and float a queen high flop. Then obv re-bluff a dry turn.

Pretty sticky hand alright.

Yes! He's back. This is gold, you need to post around here more often.

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03-10-2010 , 10:29 AM

#16

zecasaralegu

adept

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 993

Quote:

Originally Posted by michty6

if he said so... he's on TV and we are not, so villain had 89s for sure, real beauty for limp/calling with his stack

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03-10-2010 , 10:34 AM

#17

michty6

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,041

Quote:

Originally Posted by zecasaralegu

if he said so... he's on TV and we are not, so villain had 89s for sure, real beauty for limp/calling with his stack

Yeh but one time he did this the flop came 6s 7s Th giving him the nuts with the redraw and he stacked some idiot with 18 BBs who had AA and didnt realise how powerful sooooted connectors were so it must be profitable.

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03-10-2010 , 11:15 AM

#18

zecasaralegu

adept

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 993

Quote:

Originally Posted by michty6

and one time he said to a guy who was misplaying AA: " i think you have Aces"

anyway not a Negreanu thread, i think he'd crush me in any forms of poker, (maybe not in the kamikazes on cake) so i'll give him some respect

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03-10-2010 , 11:35 AM

#19

Bad Beat Bill

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,211

I always zip that in PF, you're 60/40 vs. lots of hands there, but if I just called I'd definitely be looking for a 226 flop.

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03-10-2010 , 11:53 AM

#20

Roy4lPl4yor

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 272

You have a big problem on the flop, you don't want to make a cbet because it commits you to the pot. This is one of reasons why you lost this hand.

For avoiding these situations you should just simply shove preflop.

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03-10-2010 , 02:36 PM

#21

HogMajor

banned

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy4lPl4yor

For avoiding these situations you should just simply shove preflop.

Terrible advice. Think of the implied odds from value shoving a blank turn. If you see a flop and it's a marginal hand it gives the villan a chance to spew his chips. Pretty simple theory tbh. I call it the Call, float and shove play.

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03-10-2010 , 02:53 PM

#22

michty6

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,041

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogMajor

It should now be called HogMajor Theorum.

Quote

03-10-2010 , 03:28 PM

#23

Roy4lPl4yor

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 272

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogMajor

That's a nice theory, you can practice it when you are both deep and not practically in push zone (efective stack is 12bb).

Quote

03-10-2010 , 03:35 PM

#24

7castle

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,161

OMG how this thread can have 22 posts?

Isn't this easy shove PF and as played easy shove flop?

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03-10-2010 , 09:52 PM

#25

HogMajor

banned

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy4lPl4yor

That's a nice theory, you can practice it when you are both deep and not practically in push zone (efective stack is 12bb).

That's not the way i play 12bb's. I would typically limp with a 67/78/89 type hand. Use a few blinds floating the flop and turn and then reshove a blank river with 5bbs. Normally does the trick.

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