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16$ AK in a bubble

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11-04-2009 , 05:22 PM

sngrush

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 628

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 16 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Button (t1245)
SB (t1525)
Hero (BB) (t4250)
UTG (t6480)

Hero's M: 14.17

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

, A

UTG bets t800, Hero ???

Villain is agressive fish, about 50/28.
What is our play?

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11-04-2009 , 05:35 PM

smiteme

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,134

snap shove

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11-04-2009 , 05:44 PM

vyoutz

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 662

Not so fast on the shove over this raise.......... OK, the villains' a fish, but they are entitled to have a real hand on occasion. With these stack configurations, I find a fold pretty quickly here.

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11-04-2009 , 05:51 PM

soulsbyc

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 545

I think i go for the shove. Of course they can have a hand 'on occasion', but all that really matters is that their range is wide enough to make it ok. I havn't put it in wiz, but if you double up here you're in such a good spot...

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11-04-2009 , 05:55 PM

smiteme

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,134

villains obv a fish, but that doesn't mean we don't have any fold equity...

he's raising with a lot of crap, and we don't mind the call here imo. Granted we can sneak into the money if we play it safe, but if we double up here against the big stack, we significantly improve our chances of 1st.

Plus he's got a lot of Ax hands in his range which we dominate.

This all being said, I have been busting out on the bubble far more than usual lately, so maybe this is a leak in my game?

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11-04-2009 , 05:56 PM

i hate donks

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 353

shove imo, could easily have a worse ace or king and its for a lot of his chips.....

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11-04-2009 , 07:27 PM

Deurdy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,646

A bit mood dependent for me. Sometimes I shove, other times I flat and try to stack him if I hit A or K on flop. Against an aggro donk the implied odds seems quite nice with AK to afford flatting OOP, as opposed to maybe flipping pf allin on the bubble.
Although you should def. have loads of FE he with a shove.
I just don't like folding here.

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11-04-2009 , 08:27 PM

CCuster_911

You Only Live Once

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 24,435

Ya if i really feel bad about the flow or whatnot on the table than I might flat but never folding, probably shove

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11-04-2009 , 08:32 PM

smiteme

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,134

imo shoving > flatting by a long shot... unless we have a read that villain is passive post flop.

I don't wanna take AK to a flop oop against a crazy villain like this on the bubble. Especially with the stack sizes the way they are

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11-05-2009 , 04:46 AM

#10

Deurdy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiteme

imo shoving > flatting by a long shot... unless we have a read that villain is passive post flop.

My view would be pretty different. I'd rather flat if he's aggressive, cause that makes our implied odds a lot better (although we possibly already have the best hand), and makes postflop easier; either you don't hit and you can easily fold and still have a healthy stack left, or you hit and take down a very big pot or even stack him and take the chiplead.

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11-05-2009 , 05:20 AM

#11

7castle

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,161

I am getting this in, there are tons of FE, you can really hurt him. It sucks when he flips over 77 sometimes but it is still very profitable longterm imo.

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11-05-2009 , 06:25 AM

#12

trojanmana

adept

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 737

given the stack sizes i have to fold this. im too deep and the shorties are too short for me to be busting out against a fish who is going to look me up with 66.

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11-05-2009 , 07:38 AM

#13

snakee

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 531

I shove this against most opponents, i don't like sitting around hoping to limp into the money, you should be looking to play for 1st place

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11-05-2009 , 07:40 AM

#14

snakee

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 531

also there is alot of FE as mentioned above, and you will be amazed how often you are called by AQ - AJ (especially if villian thinks you are restealing)

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11-05-2009 , 07:47 AM

#15

Ketelsen

adept

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 957

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakee

I shove this against most opponents, i don't like sitting around hoping to limp into the money, you should be looking to play for 1st place

Umm, no you shouldn't ?

My first instinct was fold, but looking at the answers, maybe i'm wrong about that.

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11-05-2009 , 12:28 PM

#16

Caramelldansen

banned

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,136

shove / fold >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call

unless you are covering an all in player, anything > call in a stt.

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11-05-2009 , 12:34 PM

#17

snakee

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 531

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ketelsen

Umm, no you shouldn't ?

My first instinct was fold, but looking at the answers, maybe i'm wrong about that.

what place are you going for then? of course there are times when we should be looking to play conservativily and get into the money first, but I think that if you can build a chiplead in this sort of situation you can easily pound on all 3 other players and take advantage of the bubble factor

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11-05-2009 , 12:37 PM

#18

rakes

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,699

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7castle

I am getting this in, there are tons of FE, you can really hurt him. It sucks when he flips over 77 sometimes but it is still very profitable longterm imo.

nailed it imo.

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11-05-2009 , 01:36 PM

#19

Khiseer

stranger

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakee

u should play for value?

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11-05-2009 , 03:13 PM

#20

Glitlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 4,682

Guess I suck, I fold this pretty fast.

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11-05-2009 , 03:30 PM

#21

soulsbyc

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 545

OK so i just put this in wiz, and i would like to retract my original statement.

If hes calling with AJ+ and 77+, he needs to be opening 43% for this to be good.

Even if hes only calling with AK+ and JJ+, he needs to be opening with 23% (any ace or pair)

Seems like you would have to have a very good read to make this a shove.

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11-05-2009 , 04:37 PM

#22

Deurdy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caramelldansen

shove / fold >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call

unless you are covering an all in player, anything > call in a stt.

lol @ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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11-05-2009 , 04:53 PM

#23

TomoDaK

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,837

My instinct was to shove and I like it after dinking around with wiz. It depends a lot on what type of moron he is, but I really don't think he calls us w/o 88 AJ maybe even a bit tighter. I'd def expect this guy to open like 30-35% (or wider) and I think you can prob somewhat exclude big pairs from his range given the 4x which makes wiz like it a lot more

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11-05-2009 , 05:01 PM

#24

sngrush

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 628

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomoDaK

Good thinking, but imo we can't exclude big pairs, b/c imo some fish tend to bet big with their big hands.
I tanked for a while and folded Cause I just hate to get called there by 77+ and imo our stack is easily big enough to coast to the money and then start pwning the fish.
Flatting seems interesting though.

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11-05-2009 , 06:01 PM

#25

TomoDaK

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,837

Agree I don't think we can fully exclude them, I played around excluding JJ+ as well as only AA changes the results quite a bit. Forgot to add that I think flat > fold. Calling 600 here is a nice chunk of our stack, but it really isn't hurting our relative position on the bubble much and this crazy dork will def stack off worse TP hands postflop.

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