15$ 6 man turbo Nasty spot 1st hand - MTT Poker Strategy

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy No Limit Tournaments

15$ 6 man turbo Nasty spot 1st hand

Post Reply Subscribe

...

10-27-2011 , 12:42 PM

Kingdom Hearts

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,319

Literally the first hand of the match... I have absolutely on villain other that he's playing at 2 other tables... I folded river cause I can't see him ever value betting worse or bluffing in this spot... any input would be appreciated.

Poker Stars, $13.92 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10912702

Hero (BTN): 1,500 (75 bb)
SB: 1,500 (75 bb)
BB: 1,500 (75 bb)
UTG: 1,500 (75 bb)
MP: 1,500 (75 bb)
CO: 1,500 (75 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with A

UTG calls 20, 2 folds, Hero raises to 80, 2 folds, UTG calls 60

Flop: (190) 3

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets 120, UTG calls 120

Turn: (430) 7

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets 240, UTG calls 240

River: (910) K

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets 360, UTG raises to 1,060 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results: 1,630 pot
Final Board: 3

Hero mucked A

and lost (-800 net)
UTG mucked and won 1,630 (830 net)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Bet more flop maybe ? I should have gone for a pot size bet on this messy flop perhaps...

Quote

10-27-2011 , 01:10 PM

ueberstimuliert

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 370

i haven't played 6max in years regularly but bet folding top two otr vs presumably a random can't be a profitable play. also where is that flop messy? sure u will get coolered some times but there are way too many hands in the tards rangte that you are still beating.

Quote

10-27-2011 , 01:31 PM

urinpain

adept

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 797

besides the river, well played. Maybe just t70 pre and a bit more on the turn. Never see me folding on the river with top2. A random villain can have top pair, Ax 2pair, even Kx 2pair.

Quote

10-27-2011 , 02:19 PM

ihqpony.93

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 206

If you are ready to fold top 2 on river other option is to pot control check turn. Against random hard to fold top 2 in that spot. Would be totally different case if u have 2 villains in pot on river. I would raise to 60 pre.

Quote

10-27-2011 , 06:10 PM

penfold

banned

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,279

Check back turn because it's very unlikey he checks twice if he's made that flush had you checked back, he would no doubt bet the river and you can just call.

Quote

10-27-2011 , 06:28 PM

urinpain

adept

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 797

^isn' that very risky if he picks up a FD on the turn?

Quote

10-27-2011 , 06:36 PM

ICMIZER 3 Representative

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,656

I am not sure this hand is badly played, river bet is good and fold is also logical, % of times he minraises with worse is very limited, not getting value from AK is bad.

Id bet more flop though , cause all Ax are calling anywa, and many action killers for turn.

Last edited by Q; 10-27-2011 at 06:47 PM.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 03:38 AM

Looselad

stranger

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 14

Due to the lack of info on this player i think your fold is sensible only hands you can beat are worst 2 pairs and maybe busted nut flush draws which unless he is grisly bad he won't be shoving on the river. Seeing as this pot is so early I think I fold. More info on the player would be good. Don't forget your total equity in the tournament if u do bust him is still not that great 20% instead of 11% if this is full ring. Against decent regs this is a - ev call

Quote

10-28-2011 , 03:49 AM

urinpain

adept

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 797

^well, villain is no decent reg, more likely a fish. No way I'm folding a pot of t2330 for t700 more with top2. Not against a random guy from the low stakes.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 11:28 PM

#10

yes/no

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 273

Why would you only make it 70 or even 60 pf? Never folding this river, yeah it looks kinad strong but he could very well have a worse 2pair, also fish do stupid stuff.
I liked the bets, maybe I bet a bit more on turn, I think its ok to bet more on turn or bet smaller to induce shove

Quote

10-29-2011 , 01:29 AM

#11

urinpain

adept

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 797

T60/t70 achieves the same as t80 imo, with the advantage of keeping the pot smaller.

Quote

10-29-2011 , 01:37 PM

#12

Foreman11

adept

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 952

With AKs we don't wanna keep the pot smaller, but build a pot while not letting everybody and their dog in for cheap; 80 is very standard/good. You COULD go a tad more the flop, but overall this looks pretty good to me. River is annoying but i call without any info on the guy. Given we barreled flop and turn it's conceivable he'd check a big hand to u on the river expecting you won't check behind, but it's also pretty likely he woulda put in a cr sooner.

Quote

10-29-2011 , 03:53 PM

#13

TomoDaK

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,837

I'm the only one who thinks riv is an easy fold?

Bit more flop, otherwise well played.

Quote

10-29-2011 , 04:10 PM

#14

Foreman11

adept

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 952

Not saying we're ahead a ton, but we're almost getting 2:1. I guess i'm pretty hesitant to give randoms credit here in a $15.

Quote

10-30-2011 , 12:57 AM

#15

Monkey Banana

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 40,103

I call the river with great contentment. LOL at raising pre to 60.

Quote

10-30-2011 , 06:40 AM

#16

urinpain

adept

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 797

I don't get it why some are advising to minraise at 50/100 for example, but thinking raising t60 here is a "LOL" line. Keeping in mind fish just seeing the raise size, not really caring for pot-odds, tEQ or stuff like that, I don't think a 3x raise is worse than a minraise.
Not saying it's the best raise size to take, just that it's not THAT bad imo.
FWIW I'm raising t80 most of the time here, sometimes t70.

Quote

10-30-2011 , 08:46 AM

#17

monkeyheaven

adept

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 733

Flop bet seems fine to me, you could go up to pot size here, villain doesn't fold ace or flush draw to one bet so may as well make it a big one.

Turn bet looks good. River depends how bad I think villain is, shoving versus random/fish and wouldn't be amazed to get called by A2 etc. Bet small vs break even players, maybe as small as 300, get some calls from suited aces, maybe they have A9-AJ. If someone good somehow got to river like this I'd be really confused and might even checkback sometimes.

As played on river, villain has a flush here, fold.

Quote

10-30-2011 , 09:10 AM

#18

urinpain

adept

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 797

^why do you want to bet more on the flop, but like the bet on the turn, considering the 7d makes the board even more drawy?

Quote

10-30-2011 , 09:36 AM

#19

monkeyheaven

adept

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 733

Quote:

Originally Posted by urinpain

^why do you want to bet more on the flop, but like the bet on the turn, considering the 7d makes the board even more drawy?

The turncard completes a draw, I expect to get checkraised sometimes on this turn and I'm prepared to fold here, whereas I'm getting it on the flop to a random if they checkraise. If I'm considering folding to a checkraise I think a smaller bet is better.

Also, the most likely drawing hand villain has on turn is ace with rag diamond, if so I think some pot control on turn is good (a bigger bet doesn't really protect our hand, villain has an ace so he's calling), if river is non diamond we can still shove and get paid the same by villain, if river is a diamond, passive villain with rag diamond is unlikely to bet so we can checkback and save chips.

Quote

10-30-2011 , 09:47 AM

#20

urinpain

adept

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 797

^thanks, I like!

Quote

10-30-2011 , 10:39 AM

#21

YNC

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 224

I make it 100-120 pre and bet bigger otf.
Given how you played it, I also fold river.

Quote

10-31-2011 , 12:26 AM

#22

Monkey Banana

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 40,103

Quote:

Originally Posted by urinpain

I don't get it why some are advising to minraise at 50/100 for example, but thinking raising t60 here is a "LOL" line.

a/ I don't.
b/ But if I did, it would be because I steal a lot at t100 and raising less makes steals cheaper.
c/ This is not a steal; it's a raise for value.
d/ Raising to 70 is lol, raising to 60 is LOL.

Quote

10-31-2011 , 04:17 AM

#23

mckrogh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 6,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomoDaK

I'm the only one who thinks riv is an easy fold?

Bit more flop, otherwise well played.

No me2. Easy fold on river.

Quote

10-31-2011 , 05:17 AM

#24

Cpt.Hero

adept

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,020

We have to be good 1/3 of the time and play against a random who openlimps and we invested 1/2 of our stack already + we have top2. Dont think that a fold is that easy. Can be a huge mistake vs Fish who just press random buttons or thinks his 2Pair is good vs our small bet or thinks he has Foldequity with busted Flushdraw vs our small bet.

Quote

10-31-2011 , 06:47 AM

#25

YNC

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 224

Quote:

Originally Posted by urinpain

First it's situational, it's not that generally minraising at t100 is good but in your other thread it would've been --> given your read!
Also think about it like this: If fish don't care for raise sizes/pot odds you want your steals to be as small as possible while you want your value raises to be as big as (reasonably) possible. So don't be afraid of open raising AA for 100 or sth. in 10/20 blinds when you know there are guys sitting behind you who look at their cards and click buttons.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...