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135 rush vs 180 man?

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09-01-2010 , 01:36 PM

K00PASC00PA

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 427

what do you guys think about the $4.40 135 rush sngs on ft vs the $2.20 180s on stars in terms of softness, reg infestation and variance? i have played a lot of the 2.20s and 4.40s on stars but never any of the 4.40 rush on ft, i assume variance is about the same as a turbo format and because its rush the field should be soft, amirite? any other pros cons comparing the two formats or opinions on the 135s ?

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09-01-2010 , 03:26 PM

Ins0mniac

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 71

i generally find the rushs really soft, people make some really wacky call downs and moves. although im on a pretty bad DS currently /;. i def recommend trying some of the 4.40s and getting used to the structure etc.

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09-01-2010 , 03:28 PM

MXRider

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 272

Stay over at stars, no money in da rush pokerz

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09-01-2010 , 04:20 PM

garrettgd

banned

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 101

the 135 rush sng's are really soft. it gets down to like 30players in about 20-30 minutes

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09-01-2010 , 05:56 PM

saladspoon

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 265

135 man rush is really soft (until you get up to the $24+2 ones). You play more hands than you would in a normal turbo game because of the "rush" aspect to it, so you can probably get a better ROI in them than a turbo 180-man.

There's less reg's because nobody can mass-multitable rush games, but the variance is really harsh; despite a huge payout difference between 6-7th and 1st, the last 6-7 final table finishes are pretty much decided in a high blind push-fold game.

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09-01-2010 , 06:18 PM

intclock

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,666

i don't play on stars so can't compare, but the 135 rush games are definitely soft, especially in the end-game, where a good portion of the players don't know how to play push/fold properly.

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09-01-2010 , 06:42 PM

K00PASC00PA

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 427

Quote:

Originally Posted by saladspoon

135 man rush is really soft (until you get up to the $24+2 ones). You play more hands than you would in a normal turbo game because of the "rush" aspect to it, so you can probably get a better ROI in them than a turbo 180-man.

There's less reg's because nobody can mass-multitable rush games, but the variance is really harsh; despite a huge payout difference between 6-7th and 1st, the last 6-7 final table finishes are pretty much decided in a high blind push-fold game.

how would say the variance is compared to the turbo 180s?

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09-01-2010 , 07:02 PM

saladspoon

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 265

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how would say the variance is compared to the turbo 180s?

The variance is pretty close to the same; the payout structures of both are really top-heavy, with 1st being more than double 3rd.

I think you have more room to out-play your opponents in the early and mid stages of Rush than you do in the 180-man's, but once you hit the final table, the blinds increase in 4-minute intervals in the Rush 135-man's, while they increase in 5-minute intervals in the Pokerstars 180-man's.

So in the Rush 135-man's, you should be able to get to the final table more often, but you'll have to rely on luck more to actually win 1st.

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09-01-2010 , 07:17 PM

intclock

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,666

Quote:

Originally Posted by saladspoon

So in the Rush 135-man's, you should be able to get to the final table more often, but you'll have to rely on luck more to actually win 1st.

i lol in your general direction.

the early stages definitely reward nitty play, which means plenty of nits will get to the final table, and people call off light in rush 135's way less often than they do in the 90 KO's, for example, meaning you can exploit the crap out of them by shoving wide.

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09-01-2010 , 09:16 PM

#10

saladspoon

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 265

Quote:

the early stages definitely reward nitty play, which means plenty of nits will get to the final table, and people call off light in rush 135's way less often than they do in the 90 KO's, for example, meaning you can exploit the crap out of them by shoving wide.

Ummm. Play more rush tourneys before generalizing like that. The players at the rush final tables make a wide variety of mistakes, not just nitty ones. The better players play tight early but steal wide as the blinds get bigger, and it's rare to see someone play as a nit from start to finish.

And even if your push-fold game is far superior to the rest of the table, you're still going to have a harder time trying to make first than if the blind structure was tamer.

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09-01-2010 , 09:27 PM

#11

Trent Raisner

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,085

These things should be non turbo in my opion, to reduce the variance a bit.

I see ~ 10 regs in every SNG (4$ & 11$) that goes off. (4$ & 11$)

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09-01-2010 , 10:44 PM

#12

MXRider

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 272

Quote:

Originally Posted by saladspoon

While I agree with most of what you are saying here, I disagree with the FT being a pushfest. I tend to see most final tables with an average stack of 25ish bb which leaves plenty of room to play poker. Yes, the blind levels are shorter, but the final table gets there so much quicker, you actually have some play left.

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09-01-2010 , 11:40 PM

#13

saladspoon

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 265

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The beginning of the final table often starts at 600/1200 (average stack = 25 BB) or 800/1600 (average stack = 18.75 BB), but people tend to start busting out in 6th or 7th at higher blind levels, like 1500/3000 or 2000/4000, when it's harder to play poker.

I'm not saying that the whole final table is a pushfest, but a large amount of money does get decided when your options are down to push/fold, and the faster blind structure causes the game to degrade to push/fold faster.

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09-02-2010 , 02:12 PM

#14

thedarknight

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,757

blind levels at rush are actually 3 min long, so it's like a super turbo at the final table.

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09-02-2010 , 02:58 PM

#15

MXRider

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 272

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedarknight

blind levels at rush are actually 3 min long, so it's like a super turbo at the final table.

Not completely true. They start at 3 and actually increase to 4 after 10 levels (think that's right) and then up again to 5 but they never reach that point.

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09-02-2010 , 03:26 PM

#16

intclock

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,666

Quote:

Originally Posted by saladspoon

...the faster blind structure causes the game to degrade to push/fold faster.

de·grade
/dɪˈgreɪd or, for 3, diˈgreɪd/ [dih-greyd or, for 3, dee-greyd] verb, -grad·ed, -grad·ing.
–verb (used with object)
1. to lower in dignity or estimation; bring into contempt: He felt they were degrading him by making him report to the supervisor.
2. to lower in character or quality; debase.
3. to reduce (someone) to a lower rank, degree, etc.; deprive of office, rank, status, or title, esp. as a punishment: degraded from director to assistant director.
4. to reduce in amount, strength, intensity, etc.

it's not the size of the stack that matters, it's how you play it, bro.

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09-02-2010 , 03:41 PM

#17

thedarknight

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,757

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXRider

Not completely true. They start at 3 and actually increase to 4 after 10 levels (think that's right) and then up again to 5 but they never reach that point.

Aight, will have to take a look, honestly does seem like at the final table blinds go up quite fast, faster than a 90 man KO Turbo.

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09-05-2010 , 06:06 PM

#18

Trent Raisner

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,085

Lot's of 3betting and > 20 BB reshoves generally in the 11$ & 24$ ones and deep in the 3R and 2R (like < 400 left), makes them kinda uneasy to play. No more auto-piloting and straight chipping up. They used to be softer.

Confirm/deny?

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09-07-2010 , 01:51 AM

#19

kermit78

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 204

The rush sngs take ages to fill etc, the sngs on stars fill so quickly, and because stars has such a bigger player base of fish, the 2 180s and the 4 180s are much soft on there

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09-07-2010 , 07:30 AM

#20

sXeffects

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrTrentRaisner

Confirm/deny?

deny. they are still soft as hell on FT's.

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09-07-2010 , 10:59 AM

#21

two2brains

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,636

Quote:

Originally Posted by kermit78

The rush sngs take ages to fill etc, the sngs on stars fill so quickly, and because stars has such a bigger player base of fish, the 2 180s and the 4 180s are much soft on there

i agree. I was amazed at how fast sngs fill on stars after playing ftp for awhile. The 18 mans reg so fast i cant even keep up.

Can anyone play more than 16 tables of sngs on ftp? When you try to reg 17 it pops up to email support to increase table limits.

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10-31-2010 , 01:20 AM

#22

kmt5

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 366

Allot easier to get in volume plus you make more in RB over the year at PS.

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