11r at stars no stats

> > > PokerStars Game #61179388539: Tournament #417010645, $10+$1
USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2011/04/22 23:30:06 CET [2011/04/22 17:30:06 ET]
> > > Table '417010645 186' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
> > > Seat 1: wulfenstein (7930 in chips)
> > > Seat 2: HERO(7460 in chips)
> > > Seat 3: Ronenon (20163 in chips)
> > > Seat 4: Bryushkov (9200 in chips)
> > > Seat 5: fckAlejandro (9675 in chips)
> > > Seat 6: Surr91 (3672 in chips)
> > > Seat 7: LeoSprite (2795 in chips)
> > > Seat 8: DELUXE1893 (2725 in chips)
> > > Seat 9: Argantonio (10586 in chips)
> > > HERO: posts small blind 100
> > > Ronenon: posts big blind 200
> > > *** HOLE CARDS ***
> > > Dealt to HERO K4
> > > Bryushkov: folds
> > > fckAlejandro: folds
> > > Surr91: folds
> > > LeoSprite: folds
> > > DELUXE1893: calls 200
> > > Argantonio: calls 200
> > > wulfenstein: folds
> > > HERO calls 100
> > > Ronenon: checks
> > > *** FLOP *** [6KK ]
> > > HERO: bets 400
> > > Ronenon: calls 400
> > > DELUXE1893: calls 400
> > > Argantonio: calls 400
> > > *** TURN *** [Q ]

(I know I should have fold pre flop) what should i do on turn??

Um, calling pre is fine.

Lead flop, lead turn. Have fun.

god leading here is so face up

On the flop it's not.

On the turn, maybe more so. I think checking this turn is pretty god awful given three flats.

i assure you, on the flop it is

I truly hate being results-oriented (really) but, even if I didn't see results after his lead, I'd think leading is not face up.

That said, being results-oriented, everyone flatted this flop. EDIT (I take out "ergo his hand is not face up"). If his hand were that face up, why the **** would they do that.

Edit some more: leading here as a random against randoms is almost always fine. People's conclusions will be "6" or "FD" far more often than "K"

lol what else is he leading from the sb otf? bet the turn again like 1221

How am I the only one thinking that people will put him on a 6 or a flush draw way before they think he's leading with a king. This is not HSMTT with known players - this is random v. random no stats.

I guarantee, he gets flatted here an atrocious amount of time by 77-QQ. How can his hand be face up if that's the case?

what are they calling with tho if they put him on a 6 or a flushdraw?

See above. Sorry for profuse editing - it's how I roll.

And as for why I could possibly put anyone on QQ, if they're limping the hijack at all, I already think they suck. Who knows that the hell they have.

EDIT still more: if they put him on a six they call him with a flush draw. If they put him on a flush draw, they call him with pocket pairs. There are three other people in the hand.

Leading the king here against a better player in a better tournament might be more transparent. I've seen no proof that either of these are the case.

it sounds like youre just trying to make your argument work. you cant lead the K and pretend someone will put you on a flushdraw and call with a 6. why would anyone lead a 6 here anyway?

I mean this as nonconfrontationally as possible:

I think an earnest problem people in this forum have is that they think that other players are, on the whole, good, that they make rational decisions, the correct plays, are capable of making solid reads, have some sort of metagame, and and that, overall, you need to play the same against them as if you were playing against NeverScaredB in some >$200 BI, small-field nightmare of a tournament.

But online poker players on the whole just suck (isn't the cannonical number 90% of them are losing players?) and at 100/200 in a huge 10r is a great place to find them sucking the hardest. Open limping MP3 in this spot is already a play that I can't imagine anyone decent ever making, much less the limp behind.

When players suck, checkraising in this spot will look a lot stronger to them than leading, hence I think leading is good. Plus, it's four-handed - I'm a lot more inclined to think that there are draws out there that will call. That and OP lead exactly half pot, which I think is about as unreadable a bet to randoms as you can possibly get in this spot.

I really can't be the only one thinking this, right? I'm a pretty winning player.

Brief follow up: knowing nothing about the limpers beforehand, I just sharkscoped them.

First is 391 games, -34% ROI. Second is 234 games, -75% ROI. Please, let's not go playing against these people like they're any degree of decent.

I am the 11r king!

Ok so when hero leads the flop here it does not mean he has a K, trust me. Not in the 11r. He can have a flush draw, a 6, or a K.

So... lead flop and keep leading. The pot is now 2400 yes? lead for 1600-1800 on the turn.

Good stuff.

my next problem on the turn. If i bet 1875 and get reraised allin by the bb, I should fold right?
but, than i can also just check/fold turn if I dont fill-up, cause someone has probably a K with a better kicker right?

Umm, if you lead flop, you should 100% lead turn. Do not check fold here.

ok, i bet 1875 and get very quickly reraised allin by the BB and he gets a call from DELUXE (small-stack). I have like 5.2k behind, should I allways fold here??? I cant imagine i have the best hand here..

Im going to stick up for non plussed here.

NSB said one of the best bits of advice (or thoughts) was that he didnt balance as much vs bad players.

Leading here is goot imo.

lead flop here always IMO esp at this level vs droolers

what to do on turn??? i bet 1875 and get reraised allin by the bb and a call from the shortie..

Fold. The BB (sharkscope away) is a solid player and has you pretty crushed, and I don't really care about the shortie because BB has you covered. You're not committed, and you have ~4,800ish after dropping, which is certainly workable at 100/200 with no antes.

If BB has air he's a total psycho, and the only non-made hand I can possibly see him shipping with is J10. Even then, that would still be really spewey, because your turn bet IS repping a king pretty hard. He has no idea how much FE he has against a random and he's still shipping.

So yeah, fold.

being face up is under-rated