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$114: early AK vs solid BTN steal

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04-24-2008 , 09:00 AM

darinvg

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,569

Villain is very solid.
Is a flat call or a reraise best? How's the rest?

Poker Stars $105+$9 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 9 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

lllFSlll (UTG+2): t1500
traviss123 (MP1): t1780
lipe piv (MP2): t1500
jtrose1 (CO): t1150
hg18l7 (BTN): t1560
Lhurgoyf63 (SB): t1480
Hero (BB): t1500
leafs4ever21 (UTG): t1500
a1015 (UTG+1): t1530

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with K

6 folds, hg18l7 raises to t60, 1 fold, Hero raises to t180, hg18l7 calls t120

Flop: (t370) 9

(2 players)
Hero bets t200, hg18l7 calls t200

Turn: (t770) 6

(2 players)
Hero checks, hg18l7 bets t240, Hero folds

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04-24-2008 , 09:07 AM

Rodolphe

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,332

I like a flat call to keep the pot small because you're OOP.
But if you prefer a raise, I would raise more (ok, I've just said I don't want to play a big pot OOP I know lol) because you give him goods odds to play in position with you. If I raise (and I'm not), I make it 210-240.
On the flop, 200 is ok but I make it a little more maybe 240.
Turn looks standard even if you may fold the best hand but OOP you can't do anything.

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04-24-2008 , 09:41 AM

The Lipo Fund

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 13,483

I would probably flat
And if I'm going to 3bet I'm going to make it t240 total to go
After 3 betting you def have to cbet I like 250, unless you plan on checkraising (this depends a lot on the opponent)

Fold turn is fine, he likely has TT/JJ and is never folding

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04-24-2008 , 10:34 AM

Luisgallo

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,876

I think flat call is not optimal because you will only get value flopping an A if he has AQ.

Raising will build the pot without committing you and if he decides to fold AQ that's just ok because we are happy not to get bluffed out if we miss.

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04-24-2008 , 12:44 PM

Sparta45

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Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,617

I like the 3-bet preflop since he was on the button. I'd probably make it a bit more though....like 200-220.

I'd also probably c-bet a bit more on the flop....but not much. Maybe a bit over half pot.

The turn seems like a standard fold....

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04-24-2008 , 12:54 PM

Little John

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,596

i like a reraise vs a solid player, as luis said.

vs a donk, i like a flat. keep the pot smaller, plus you can still stack his AT or KJ if you hit top pair.

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04-24-2008 , 01:25 PM

RRizGod

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Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,265

whats villians attempt to steal number?

This might be a good spot to fire a 2nd bullet.

Flop isn't scary and he could be floating you after you make a small C-BET

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04-24-2008 , 01:35 PM

Luisgallo

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,876

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRizGod

whats villians attempt to steal number?

Villain is not stealing.

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04-24-2008 , 02:55 PM

RRizGod

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Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luisgallo

Villain is not stealing.

meaning its like 10%???????

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04-24-2008 , 03:08 PM

#10

Austiger

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,973

I would think your 3-bet range BB vs. BTN should always include AK.

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04-24-2008 , 03:10 PM

#11

Luisgallo

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,876

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRizGod

meaning its like 10%???????

probably less than 5%.

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04-24-2008 , 03:14 PM

#12

RRizGod

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Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luisgallo

probably less than 5%.

well, thats scary.

What kind of PFR % does he have?

Bad spot against a guy like this. You never get any value when you do hit with your AK.

I guess I would just call preflop vs him then.

on a side note. a 5% attempt to steal number would be down right terrible at a cash table. I think the same has to apply at even a SNG.

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04-24-2008 , 03:34 PM

#13

ZonaAlumn

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,764

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRizGod

.

on a side note. a 5% attempt to steal number would be down right terrible at a cash table. I think the same has to apply at even a SNG.

I think he means that solid regs very rarely steal @ the 10-20 level, especially against another reg.

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04-24-2008 , 03:54 PM

#14

RRizGod

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Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,265

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZonaAlumn

I think he means that solid regs very rarely steal @ the 10-20 level, especially against another reg.

which I think maybe a leak.

in a cash game, your not going to be very successful if your not raising from late position.

should actually be easier to steal blinds from another reg.

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04-24-2008 , 04:08 PM

#15

Luisgallo

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,876

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRizGod

which I think maybe a leak.

in a cash game, your not going to be very successful if your not raising from late position.

should actually be easier to steal blinds from another reg.

dude...cash game forum is the other door!
this is a single table tourney, blinds go up and when u will need chips u will not give a damn to this extra 20!

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04-24-2008 , 04:18 PM

#16

jurrasstoil

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,743

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZonaAlumn

I think he means that solid regs very rarely steal @ the 10-20 level, especially against another reg.

right on the spot.

I don't see him stealing here. his range might be a bit wider than his usual opening range, but not a lot. Maybe 77+, ATs+, AJ+, (KQs).

So, I like a reraise here actually. I'd make it 180-240 to go. Against a random i prefer a flat and play fit or fold.

The bet on the flop is okay I think. Once it fails, it's an easy shutdown. His range is quite narrow for raise/call. TT+, maybe JJ+, maybe AQs+, AK. Only hands i expect him to fold to a bet are the non-pair hands. The betsize is okay for this purpose. He will still fold those, but raise or call with the hands that beat you.

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04-24-2008 , 04:32 PM

#17

RRizGod

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Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luisgallo

dude...cash game forum is the other door!
this is a single table tourney, blinds go up and when u will need chips u will not give a damn to this extra 20!

you know much your contradicting yourself by saying that?

when you start 75 BBs deep your are essentially at a cash game.

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04-24-2008 , 04:39 PM

#18

Sparta45

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Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,617

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRizGod

Flop isn't scary and he could be floating you after you make a small C-BET

Regs don't usually float when they were 3-bet preflop.

Quote

04-24-2008 , 04:47 PM

#19

jurrasstoil

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,743

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRizGod

which I think maybe a leak.

in a cash game, your not going to be very successful if your not raising from late position.

should actually be easier to steal blinds from another reg.

I smell a groundbreaking LC post coming up.

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04-24-2008 , 04:58 PM

#20

RRizGod

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Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparta45

Regs don't usually float when they were 3-bet preflop.

my point is he didnt bet enough on flop. I could see someone with a middle pair easily peeling one off and seeing what happens on the turn. The turn card virtually changes nothing.

OP checks and villian bets his pair or AK suited or something.

If the guy is weak tight he should pound the flop for $300 and make the guy think its going to be for all or nothing on the turn.

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04-24-2008 , 05:19 PM

#21

sootedgapper

banned

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 10,251

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRizGod

which I think maybe a leak.

in a cash game, your not going to be very successful if your not raising from late position.

should actually be easier to steal blinds from another reg.

wat

bbv4l certainly is goot for making replies to poasts like these

Quote:

on a side note. a 5% attempt to steal number would be down right terrible at a cash table. I think the same has to apply at even a SNG.

srsly, wtf dude??

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04-24-2008 , 05:20 PM

#22

The Venetian

adept

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,052

When darin says he's solid, though, I would expect that to mean he doesn't see him calling a pf 3-bet from another solid regular w/ middle pair. Even if his attempt to steal number is 20% at 10/20 instead of 7%, I would imagine his "call solid regular's 3-bet" range is extremely narrow either way.

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04-24-2008 , 05:22 PM

#23

sootedgapper

banned

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 10,251

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Venetian

this.

BTN prolly has TT+ like 100% of the time. Nh, darin, now fold

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04-24-2008 , 05:24 PM

#24

sootedgapper

banned

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 10,251

With that being said, I doubt he has KK/AA and probably folds to a 2nd barrel....so I wouldn't hate a two barrel vs a reg who can fold

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04-24-2008 , 06:08 PM

#25

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 100,415

I'm really not sold on 3-betting pre here, for precisely this kind of outcome. But it could be I just don't like the pain.

Can someone convince me 3-betting a solid reg preflop, OOP, is clearly superior? I know we're ahead of his range. But if we get called and flop top pair we almost never make another dime. And if we don't we either have to give up or put out a c-bet for a lot of chips. My instinct tells me I want to keep the pot small preflop and see what happens. But I could be wrong.

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