I'm new to online poker. ( Not new to poker by any means, just new to online play)

After playing about 40 of these STT I see this strategy over and over again. I've been in some tables where it seems over half of the players are doing it.

I view the all-in strat as garbage. The only reason you have for doing this is when you are severely out matched. It narrows your opponents advantage by forcing less post-flop play. ( when your stack is short enough this is obvious too keep pushing and in that scenario a good strategy).

Now I've been playing live cash games for 4 years. I view myself as an experienced and good player. I prefer to see flops and outplay my oponents. Going all in so much will catch up to you, or the odds will. You will eventually run into a hand where you are dominated or your small pair is over paired. I don't like risking all my chips even on a 50/50. Even when I'm short stacked I aim for the 60/40 advantage.

To the point.

With all these all-in bandits my % of hands played goes way down. In cash games I push about 18-20%, live MTT/STT i play around 14-17%. Online, I'm at 7-11% for STT. This is a big drop in hands played, meaning I see less flops, meaning less opportunities to outplay my opponents.

Less flops results in me trying to have a dominated or better advantage over the "all-in players". So less small-mid size pots are won but I win more big pots. This is nice, with the exception that I'm having to risk more of my stack then I would like.

Another thing is, just 1 or 2 of these players are easy to deal with, but, when there is 4+ as "a group" they have an advantage over my play style. (making my chances of making the money less).

side note* I've been seeing dominated hands winning an insane amount. Enough that I've decided to keep a record. Sample size is small so the 37% that is way to high can be skewed by randomization. I've lost 10-13 of my own hands where I Dominate, not including the others I've seen other players suffer. These Statistics almost make the All-in strategy viable!!!


My questions are:

Am I just running horrible, and my strategy vs. these opponents is correct?

Am I playing this completely wrong and being a "typical" cash game player? ( i'm avoiding my beloved 74s and other random position hands lol)

Is this All-in Strategy actually a good strategy in a STT?

Or is there any criticism to how I'm viewing this strat? Please enlighten me if I am seeing this completely wrong!!

sample size, variance and icm itt.
welcome to forum i suggest you read the FAQ which should help fill you in,

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36...ncement63.html

I question both statements...

@money bags

Thank your for the link. I understand all the info put in that FAQ. (my equity knowledge need the little refresher coarse though) I keep up on my reading. The reason I joined this forum is to learn poker the best way possible; through discussions/debates with other players. That's what I'm looking for.

@jurrasstoil

My last question applies to you then! If you are just trying to troll a forum however; please go find some random video game forum to troll instead.

well, sorry, but i have a hard time taking someone serious who states "OMG ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED" right in his first post...

Id say if you decide to stick with sngs. If in a couple weeks you can look back at your op and giggle to yourself then you are on track and have learnt something.

Seems like you have to learn ICM and hand ranges with a good push fold game.

If you believe in big stacks and outplaying people and etc, dont play SNGs. Play cashgames.

Id suggest, either learn ICM and learn from others on teh forum about STT play or play cashgames where u can outplay opponents more due to stable blinds and deep stacks.

I never said it was rigged.

I said my sample size is small so the results as of now are easily skewed.

I admit however; i have avoided online play for 4 years because I can think of ways to beat the system "slowly" with friends. If I can figure out a way, there are plenty of others out there much smarter then myself who can find better ways. And many who have been caught lol. My suspicion is why I'm starting at low levels.

I first took look at the fact that I'm seeing more hands, so, more bad beats.

That's why I'm making a record.

I have heard that the way online sites try to keep hacks at bay is by having a coninued shuffle of the remaining cards in the deck. ( I don't know if that's correct)

I don't think online is rigged. I think its just different.

I'm not trying to come off as arrogant, just not ignorant.

No.

Are you talking about cheating? It kinda sounds like it, but if you're just talking about sng strategy push/fold is basically it. Some of the best sng players period post in this forum. Stick around.

I'm going to mix up the game here and give some nice and well-meant advice.

About "the allin strategy"... what is it? Pushing or folding with 10 big blinds or less instead of limping or raising? Then yes, this is good strategy, it has to do with it having been proven to be close to optimal for short stacks and also you not really wanting action on most hands in an SNG. Pick up a book about SNGs or read up online... this is pretty well documented. Read up, seriously.

About "rigged", chances are online poker in general is not rigged. And in any case, keeping records is not a good way to find out because;

-You're not gonna keep up keeping records until you have a decent sample (1000ths of hand).
-Whether you want to or not, you are gonna be biased. Missing hands where you win because that is what you deserve and fair.
-Being so concerned with being unlucky is really bad for your mood while playing.

Losing 10 out of 13 hands where you dominated is sort of unlikely (0.1% or something if my calculator is working correctly, so for every 1000 people that play 13 hands where they dominate it happens to one), but not really that much. You see a lot of hands online so you're gonna see a lot of bad beats... I was gonna type more of these cliches, but I'm tired so I'm not gonna... Chances are online poker is not rigged...

Thank you for this very entertaining post OP

God bless you and all who think like this (hint: players who think like this are the source of most of our profits...).

Juk

You failed on both counts. Perhaps you should have read some before posting?

I see a lot of guys like you at my tables and I like it

Honestly open your ears and eyes and read forum as suggested if you want to... If not then please play at my tables k thanks.

allin strategy ftw

what are you want?

Thanks for the few who gave me some solid info. It's much appreciated.

I'll keep reading up. There is a lot more math going into STT than i originally thought. I guess I was playing a MTT/cash strategy. Where I'm used to taking my time and picking my spots, I need to be ready to make what would take 2 hours happen in 20 minutes.


A fold/push game is the way to go when you are down to 10BB. I am still having trouble seeing it when you have 20BB+.

Is the all in strategy working towards getting the most Equity possible in an instantaneous stack up? Where as you just want to have the most chips possible once its 3 handed?

Finally.

Yes I would assume online players make their profits off of live players. It would only make sense; since when you venture out of your home, and come to a casino, we make all our profits from you.

Not really. Getting the most equity, yes. It doesn't have to be instantaneous and it isn't about playing for first. Study up on the independent chip model (ICM).

lol, I hope you are just talking smack and don't really believe this. If you do believe all your profits come from online players, well, sorry but it just makes you sound like a fish. It's widely accepted that live games are significantly softer. I play a live pretty regularly, and I wish I could face live players all the time.

Dude internet players CRUSH live donks like yourself all the time. weeeeee funny tread

Push/folding with 20BB+ is really bad. With 10BB its close to optimal, with 15BB it is sometimes good and from there on it progressively gets worse.

BTW for the love of god, not the internet players vs live players thing. Seriously guys, its even worse than the europeans vs americans thing and that says something.

Alright, I think where I was failing in seeing the positive points of the all in theory is that I'm looking at it as only 1-table situation vs. an infinite number of tables. I see that being able to increase your equity in a 60/40 disadvantage situation (with fold equity), is more profitable then giving someone a 60/40 chance by a smaller raise and seeing a flop. I still have to look more into ICM. Any linky to a good thread/guide on ICM? Or i can stop being lazy and google it....





Of course not. My money comes from the waves of tourists. And the occasional cocky (poker site jacket) wearing online player :P . LOL

ICM - In a SNG, chips you lose are worth more than chips you win, so you should be more averse to getting action on your hands than in a cash game, where chips you win and chips you lose are worth the same. Pushing achieves this better than raising.

And yes, google stuff.

That one made me laugh!

$1-$2 NL live is pretty much the equivalent of $0.10-$0.25 online. Maybe lower.

Thanks that was a good article. Helped me understand it much better.

why dont you just play cash?