$10fo $500k GTD on stars!!! - Page 3 - MTT Poker Strategy

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy No Limit Tournaments

$10fo $500k GTD on stars!!!

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 3 of 7

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Page 3 of 7

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

12-12-2008 , 07:27 PM

#51

areaman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 13,213

regged and stoked

Quote

12-12-2008 , 07:30 PM

#52

Nate.

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,996

Everyone--

Look, I have to resist the temptation to paste this into every thread, but I can't quite do that now. I really think that all this payout-structure whining is (a) mathematically unfounded and (b) self-indulgent and annoying.

Below is something I wrote around WCOOP time. It might not apply as much to $10 tournaments, but I still believe it.

All my best,

--Nate

Quote:

Everyone--

Here's a quick comment that might strengthen certain intuitions. Asking Stars to steepen the payout structures is sort of like asking Stars to spread, exclusively, stud high-low no qualifier. For those unfamiliar with archaic forms of poker, stud no qualifier is basically the biggest sucker game ever. Good players beat bad ones with astronomical winrates and insanely small variance, smaller by far than a good player realizes in any contemporary form of poker. If all the tournaments were stud no qualifier, skilled players would have an absolute field day.

Except that the games wouldn't exist in the first place. Stud high-low no qualifier is a particularly boring and reliable way to lose one's money at poker. Similarly, busting well out of the money is not a particularly exciting way to lose one's money at poker.

None of which is to say that it's obviously correct for Stars to pay 15% or to pay 12% to first place or whatever. It is just to say that the giant-field big-money tournament is a very new thing in the poker world, and that we don't know enough about the relevant economics to know the best way to set these various parameters. What is obvious, though, is that there's almost no chance that the best overall situation for us is the same as the situation we'd be immediately happiest to see when we sit down to any individual tournament. Most of the arguments that are advanced against Stars' changes would apply equally well to the conclusion that Stars ought exclusively to spread razz and stud hi-low no qualifier and so on.

I'd also briefly like to note that even the idea that Stars is bucking tradition here seems very wrong to me. Huge-field tournaments are a qualitatively different sort of poker event than small-field ones, and it simply doesn't follow that a property like "pays X% to first place" ought to translate from one to the other, any more than the rule that the high card brings it in is the best rule for any stud game just because it's the best rule for one of them. Some obvious differences between the two kinds of tournaments involve variance, the marginal utility of money, and the ROI both of good players and of bad ones. It would take a while to spell all the relevant differences out, and besides we're familiar with most of them... except maybe the ones having to do with the bad player's ROI. This is a matter of some controversy, but I'm very confident that big fields make dead money much, much deader. That, plus some familiar economic and psychological arguments, should give us immediate reason to think that big-field tournaments ought, structurally, to be much friendlier to bad players.

All my best,

--Nate

Quote

12-12-2008 , 07:47 PM

#53

JasonInDallas

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 6,898

Nate, I agree and basically what I said. Except I didn't say it that way. But I totally agree.

I mean come on, what do people want, winner take all?

Quote

12-12-2008 , 07:53 PM

#54

Nate.

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,996

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonInDallas

Nate, I agree and basically what I said. Except I didn't say it that way. But I totally agree.

I mean come on, what do people want, winner take all?

Jason--

Well, it's sort of reasonable that people might think that steep payouts are best. I think that careful reflection undermines most of the reasons for thinking so, but it's not like everyone saying this is insane.

I also think there's a psychological motive at work here, and it's the same one that generates countless posts about how trivially easy a decision it is to use your only rebuy immediately in a 1R1A: there's a group dynamic around here that strongly encourages everyone to air their deep-stack-loving, risk-embracing tendencies as loudly and as often as possible. Usually I just read and move on, because life is too short to spend wagging one's finger at people, but in this case 2+2 has a bit of lobbying power and it's a theoretically interesting question, so I figured it'd be a good place to dissent...

All my best,

--Nate

Quote

12-12-2008 , 08:15 PM

#55

dispatch87

banned

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 858

after nates post im way more stoked

Quote

12-12-2008 , 08:16 PM

#56

miw210

banned

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,562

regged! haven't been excited for a $11 donkament in a long time

Quote

12-12-2008 , 10:31 PM

#57

Loretta8

knows her Big Ten

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 21,899

going to be on a plane when this starts mepoimfdpwemfdpoew

Quote

12-12-2008 , 10:52 PM

#58

JMX

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,720

I hope they raise the cap to 100K, so we can call it the Sunday Million. After all, the quality of play is pretty much the same.

Quote

12-12-2008 , 10:57 PM

#59

GoodOlKevin

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,477

Hot diggity damn I can't wait for this.

Quote

12-12-2008 , 11:27 PM

#60

stakman1011

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 10,491

"Ring in 2009 with the $2,009,000 Guaranteed Pokerstars Sunday New Year Extravaganza!!!" Starting at 2:09 January 3rd, The buy-in will be $109 but there are 2009 different ways to satellite in, starting with as little as 10fpps! So win your seat today!!!!!!!!!!"

would be nice imo.

One time Stars?

Stak

ps. I <3 Stars already and don't mean to ask for too much. But something like this at some point would be sick!

Quote

12-12-2008 , 11:43 PM

#61

MJBuddy

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,863

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loretta8

going to be on a plane when this starts mepoimfdpwemfdpoew

Dude, chip and a chair. Just start an hour late; I'm sure you're still +EV.

Quote

12-13-2008 , 12:02 AM

#62

highlandfox

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,366

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonInDallas

Uh, some of us like it that way. I know everyone on 2p2 thinks he is in the top 99.9999% of players but it just ain't true for all of us. Not so top heavy is a good thing for the vast majority of us, including even most winning players.

Somewhere between a DON or WTA is the middle ground that will appeal to the most players. I think Stars' has it pretty close.

Everyone on 2p2 is in the top 99.9999% of players.

Quote

12-13-2008 , 12:08 AM

#63

BLAABAR

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,699

Whats the current world record of biggest poker tournament? sunday 200k?

Quote

12-13-2008 , 12:50 AM

#64

Wish

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,559

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that out of every million poker players, I can find at least one who's worse than me. Might take sorting through a few football stadiums full, but I'll find one eventually. Alas, I probably won't get to prove my ineptitude in this glorious tournament. Plans that weekend.

Quote

12-13-2008 , 01:11 AM

#65

Dantes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,833

Quote:

Originally Posted by benza13

also it looks like it will be 10 handed tables, at least from the payout structure cuz 10th gets $1,500 and then 11-15 get the same and 16-20, then 10 person increments...

yup 10 handed tables, probably easier on the servers

Quote

12-13-2008 , 01:11 AM

#66

LetMeLive

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,131

heh, ill donate

Quote

12-13-2008 , 01:39 AM

#67

brewing

banned

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 20

my dream has come true

Quote

12-13-2008 , 02:39 AM

#68

theskillzdatklls

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,919

i think pokerstars is setting up for the $3.30 100k guar tournament coming up

Quote

12-13-2008 , 04:11 AM

#69

eBo

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,325

this is ridiculous

last chance for anyone to score big on the tlb points scale. A player only has to win this tourney and none else to hit top 100 of the montly tlb for december.