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 near bubble J10s SB vs BB  near bubble J10s SB vs BB

09-06-2013 , 12:05 AM
15 paid, 20 left Im about 12 in chips. Ive

Villain is diamond in edge but and seems like a reg has only seen me play 16 hands.

-Wasn't sure how to respond to the small 3bet.
-Decided to Donk the flop to try fold out lower PP, and fold out hands like AJ, A10.
Didn't think I could get away with a check raise here.

I know there is a bettor way to play this but Im drawing a blank. Thanks!



    Full Tilt, 400/800 blinds, 100 ante No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #19288352

    MP1: 34,648 (43.3 bb)
    MP2: 5,975 (7.5 bb)
    MP3: 29,075 (36.3 bb)
    CO: 27,466 (34.3 bb)
    BTN: 14,267 (17.8 bb)
    Hero (SB): 16,338 (20.4 bb)
    BB: 15,560 (19.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with T J
    5 folds, Hero raises to 2,155, BB raises to 3,889, Hero calls 1,734

    Flop: (8,478) K Q 4 (2 players)
    Hero bets 12,349 and is all-in, BB calls 11,571 and is all-in

    Turn: (31,620) 7 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    River: (31,620) 8 (2 players, 2 are all-in)




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     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-06-2013 , 12:42 AM
    Not sure if we can r/f for that price, but I also don't think he is 3b/f much, so flatting might be best.

    Flop is optimal imo

    May have played it perfectly
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-06-2013 , 02:59 AM
    I kind of feel like you should min-raise and then either shove or fold over his 3!
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-06-2013 , 03:31 AM
    if you are worried about playing awkward stacks oop near the money, this is a really easy jam. if you think bb will own you post, this is a really easy jam. if you arent sure if you should open or fold pre, this is a really easy jam.

    past that, sometimes you win flips, sometimes you lose flips. theres worse things than direct bubbling

    Last edited by gamboneee; 09-06-2013 at 03:32 AM. Reason: like v-del losing a 20/80
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-06-2013 , 04:32 AM
    Quote:
    this is a really easy jam
    yup
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-06-2013 , 05:21 AM
    Id have open pushed or pushed over the 3bet.
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-06-2013 , 05:48 AM
    Shove pre as mentioned, we don't want to 'induce' with JTs

    As played: OTF he's never folding Kx or Qx and since you block TT/JJ (which I doubt he'd fold anyway) I'd prefer a c/f. You're only folding him off air which he doesn't have all that often for the following reasons:

    - You block AT/AJ which is the part of his range that you're targeting
    - He most likely would shove these over your open, not r/c
    - His sizing looks nutted

    EDIT: lower PP also shove pre
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-06-2013 , 07:23 AM
    The hand as played looks like a stop and go, which will never work as a bluff against a reg. He would call with A high here.

    Preflop - I don't like your bet sizing here. He has an M of 8, in this spot there are 2 relatively standard sizings, a min bet + a few more chips or a shove. This in between raise sizing is worse than the two alternatives. I typically make it like 1700 against bad opponents, but against good opponents who will make relative few mistakes after I open the pot, I just shove.

    Now in response to his 3 bet, his sizing is suspicious. A typical multi-tabling reg is shoving most of their 3 bet range here. His min 3 bet polarizes his range more IMO. I think he has a monster or complete air with that sizing. His AK/AQ/AJ typpe hands are shoving preflop. His medium and small pairs are shoving preflop. His suited connectors that have equity if called are shoving preflop. So this looks like JJ+ and possibly some random trash he's trying to run a cheap two street bluff on, hoping he can get check/c-bet/fold on the flop. But who is running a two street bluff with these stacks? So what that means is his range is probably mostly premium pairs at this point.
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-07-2013 , 03:17 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by A_Schupick
    I kind of feel like you should min-raise and then either shove or fold over his 3!
    +1
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-07-2013 , 04:26 PM
    I would just ship it after 2.25-2.5x raising pre. I actually did consider folding but I didnt like that after thinking about it for awhile.
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-07-2013 , 04:29 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by A_Schupick
    I kind of feel like you should min-raise and then either shove or fold over his 3!
    This is good stuff too!
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-07-2013 , 11:10 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by A_Schupick
    I kind of feel like you should min-raise and then either shove or fold over his 3!
    I like this too.

    I agree with V-del that you played the flop okay, but i don't really like putting yourself in that spot in the first place.
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-08-2013 , 12:15 AM
    Flatting the 3bet at the price your getting vs his sizing is almost always going to be better then folding with a hand this good getting 4-1, even vs strongish range

    Open jamming preflop is going to be very profitable, and avoids alot of awkward spots that come with alternate lines. The average $10 mtt player is going to call way too tight, especially in this spot near the bubble (You can jam this vs anyone very profitably though).

    On the flop I think check/shoving is a lot better than donk overbet jamming, which doesn't achieve very much. c/s allows you to get an extra bet out of the hands that will fold to your jam (AJ, 99, random other hands he may show up with), as he is never folding Q or Kx here anyway. It's also a much more credible line, as you can actually represent some value hands (Would you take this donkbet line with any value hands?). If he checks back you can consider barreling off depending on what you think his check back range looks like (and depending on the runout).
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-08-2013 , 12:16 AM
    Do you guys really think shoving J10s with these stack sizes is optimal, or 4bet shoving?
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote
    09-08-2013 , 04:31 AM
    Once we open 2.5x and he min 3b we can't fold, the question becomes flat or 4b shove.

    If he's capable of 3b/f then 4b shove is probably best but I doubt he has a 3b/f range 20BB ESS. Since he will most likely 3b/c the stronger part of his range and 3b shove the rest I think flatting pre is best (as played)

    I'm still ripping this in his face pre though
     near bubble J10s SB vs BB Quote

          
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