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TJs CB? TJs CB?

11-27-2011 , 05:18 PM
SB: Loose pas, cc with AQ , limps TT , limps K5s MP, loves to slowplay
BB: Aggro pre- or postflop with bad and good hands


Do I cbet? What if 8 was 8?

stars $0.5/$1

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T J
Hero raises, 3 folds, SB calls, BB calls

Flop: (6 SB) 6 3 8 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks
11-27-2011 , 07:28 PM
yup bet
11-28-2011 , 03:05 AM
In addition to you having fairly decent fold equity when you double barrel on this texture, checking hands like this within your UTG range can be pretty problematic if anyone where to notice.
11-28-2011 , 04:27 AM
the correct thing to do is cbet, and even most likely you are gonna bet the turn UI too
11-28-2011 , 04:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leader
In addition to you having fairly decent fold equity when you double barrel on this texture, checking hands like this within your UTG range can be pretty problematic if anyone where to notice.
And I was thinking in the opposite direction like this:

" I have no fold equity at all versus this players and probably have to sec. barrel so I go for the cheapest way to see the turn and check"

I did not think of my own range at all, because of the level of my opponents, mistake?

Turn: (3 BB) 9 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero?
11-28-2011 , 09:17 AM
well u picked up an open-ender. Against one-person it is a good idea to go ahead and bet. If it's against two people, ur fold equity isn't looking as good.
11-28-2011 , 12:55 PM
From the btn there are hands I'd check back on This flop, but utg I'd pretty much be c betting all the time. Maybe QJ or KT could be checked....but JT is the bottom of your range and u have lots of BDS draws, plus A or K are good bluff cards, so This spot is good to double and triple barrel alot. Use discretion on the turn if called by both players but you really are supposed to bluff your oesd when a 9 falls. It's easy to tell yourself they'll never fold and not bluff, but the sb still has plenty of a,k, q high hands he peeled th flop with that will not call the turn and riv ui. If both players called the flop the bb almost certainly has a pair when the 9 falls. But he's a decent player and is folding a good chunk at the bottom of his range when you triple barrel from utg on this board. JT will be one of only a couple buffs mixed with tons of value hands, so you have to take it.

Last edited by pg_780; 11-28-2011 at 01:06 PM.
11-30-2011 , 06:52 PM
i dont mind checking flop at all, with the intention of sometimes turning it into a bluff on a A or K turn or river.

on turn when checked to i would bet for sure
12-08-2011 , 09:20 AM
its ok to check the flop if they never fold, either way its not a big deal either way

should bet the turn oesd + 2 overcards, whatever happens you arent too worried
12-10-2011 , 04:07 AM
listen to bbb and leader - with your UTG raise you should 2 barrel cbet - until someone else tells you they have a better hand you still have fold equity imo - and even if you end up checking through on the river and showing your hand, you will be setting yourself up to get more value later with your stong pp's or when you connect - we usually like it when weak players will call down our utg raises light and they are going to start folding more often if you only cbet made hands on the flop.
12-10-2011 , 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by augwest
and even if you end up checking through on the river and showing your hand, you will be setting yourself up to get more value later with your stong pp's or when you connect - we usually like it when weak players will call down our utg raises light and they are going to start folding more often if you only cbet made hands on the flop.
But I just wondered if bad players really realize this or do they only see their two hole cards, and call
if they feel they can call, no matter how the previous hands where played by me.
12-10-2011 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH3CLOWN
But I just wondered if bad players really realize this or do they only see their two hole cards, and call
if they feel they can call, no matter how the previous hands where played by me.
It almost seems like you're asking if it is ok to play passive vs bad players.
I'd say no, imo you are not going to increase your winrate playing non-standard or weak lines against bad players just because they are bad - seems more like stooping to their level to give everyone a chance because you feel like you have to take it easy on them.

Think about it - you are the utg raiser with a "strong" hand (at least to them and we still have decent equity with 2 overs and a backdoor plus initiative plus FE vs blind defenders) - you say you want to get to the turn/river cheaply, but you are also giving away your initiative and letting them get there cheaply as well - by switching gears and playing passive on the flop you are just reinforcing their behavior and all of a sudden how they play isn't so bad anymore since defending a wide range and calling down light is perfectly fine against players that also play loose/passive poker. Now they become even more comfortable defending wide ranges since they will often have the opportunity to catch a hand cheaply by the river. They may not be playing as bad as you think if this is how you are playing against them.

I may be FOS (not an expert fwiw), but this is how I think about it anyway...

      
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