the point being made is that the people being called losers/breakeven could suddenly become winners even though they wouldn't earn more or be doing anything different. That alone makes the difintion of winner and loser a bit silly.

Its seems really simple to me, if you're +ev in money then you're winning.

I think that's true but I'm very lazy, enough to keep me in hedonism is enough.

I don't care about SNE-chasers, winning or losing. but I have to admit that sometimes I do hope something nasty will happen to those that slow down all the 'fast' tables day in day out.

this is all true, but that doesnt change the fact that in todays games, with the rake as it is, they arent winning players. we can sit here debating definitions all day long, but thats just the case.

you cant tell me that BE or losing players are winning players but its just the rakes fault that they arent

except they clearly are winning players in todays games.

the only think the rake is possibly guilty of here is confusing you into claiming that people who are beating the game are losing.

whatever it is its very impressive.

+1

I guess it is all a matter of semantics to me about the meaning of the word "rake". To me, "rake" is the amount that PokerStars charges you to play. IThe amount of money that PokerStars charges them to play is less than the amount they charge me to play because they are better customers. And since they're still winning after PokerStars takes their cut, they're winning players, imo.

this is literally my favorite ****ing HH of all time:

Poker Stars $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.4 SB) Hero is BB with 5 3
2 folds, BTN calls, SB raises, Hero calls, BTN calls

Flop: (6 SB) 3 J 8 (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, BTN calls, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, BTN calls

Turn: (7.5 BB) A (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, BTN calls

River: (10.5 BB) 2 (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, BTN 3-bets, SB calls, Hero caps!, BTN calls, SB calls

Final Pot: 22.5 BB
BTN mucks 4 5
SB mucks A J
Hero shows 5 3 (a flush, Ace high)
Hero wins 22.3 BB
(Rake: $2.00)

SB had runner runner flushed me like 5 hands prior. FU

omfg i just tilted my ass off

lost like 300 to guys playing like 80/10 and it was ****** hot in the room so i punched my mouse really hard. the mouse broke and i couldn't click buttons anymore. so i had to run to my cabinet and get a crappy old one, then while i finish up my session i end up dropping almost 300 more.

think im gona go blow my brains out or something

:coolstorybro

Games are way sick tonight went from $350 down utg in the last 1k hands to $150 up. Go slap the women on the azz get some fresh air or something and come back calm. Play your game Bro your good I see you at the table with me often. I know it is hard as hell to do at times but we all go threw it look at my posts 2 days ago lol.


ps. I just slapped mine on the azz while she is cooking some awesome steak and she nearly stabbed me so be sure she has nothing in her hands. (crazy Hispanic women I swear)

300 bucks or 300 bets? because if it's 300 bucks, come on dude.

So back around December I made some posts ITT regarding a winrate prop bet for the 10/20 on Stars. I briefly searched and wasn't able to find the posts, but iirc it was something like a 2.25/100 wr over a decent amount of hands (think 40kish, generally 4-6 tabling, over the course of one month). A bunch of people seemed intrigued and told me they'd book action against me. It wouldn't be a huge bet, as I'd probably want somewhere around 5k$ of action, but maybe more, we'll see. I put it off, but am interested in reviving this bet, as I think it'd be a fun challenge, plus these days it wouldn't hurt me to grind lower anyway, so ...

thoughts?

Edit: Now that I think about it, maybe initially I offered a wr higher than 2.25, can't remember, I'll find it

Double Edit: for those interested, full disclosure, my historical winrate in the 6m 10 games has been about 2/100 or a little more, as well as I can recall (HEM with those hands on broken computer).

I give him props all the time, he's basically the best grinder of anyone and makes a ton of money.

other people have made SNE while beating the games... examples: me (1.5/100 or so in '08), zzeig, Nemo, Snoopy, jadajada (? going for it?), sethy, marchinvest 2006-2008

Piranha def the sickest/most consistent of that group though.

Elo I might bet against you but I'm going on a cruise so can't comment more on it til the middle of the month. Guess I'll see if you haven't started yet.

Yeah, he's got it figured out. Nice guy, too. Also, it's borderline amazing to me that MI2 was winning while many-tabling mid-high stakes in 06-08.

cool

yea me too.. it might be an indication of how there is less fish now than then, unless his game really has changed for the worse. But from what Ive seen he plays about the same now now as he did couple of years ago.

and elo, Ill probably book some against you too, just for the fun of it

elo, more details please. even money? am i allowed to play in the same games as you? etc etc.

The bet as I'm imagining it would be for even money. I'm thinking that I'd probably allow one person max involved in the bet to be at the table with me at any given time.

Also, there would probably be a clause stating that I couldn't play hu when games break or try to start hu games at a 6m table w/ fish.

I'm just formulating the bet/seeing if there's interest as of now, so I'm flexible to any ideas.

I just found the posts I made when I was thinking about this in December. At the time I wanted to do a 2.5bb/100 winrate bet, which is slightly absurd. I had like 5 different people insta-accepting that bet. At the time I was annihilating the games and thought I was invincible.

Especially after looking at the good 10/20 regs PTR pages, I think 2.25 would be plenty tough. Hell, the people who I consider to be the best 10/20 Stars 6m regs usually have 1.5ish winrates, so I should probably be demanding odds.

As an expression of interest, I'd give you $500 of action on that, with the 1 month timeframe. I don't play a ton but the 10/20 seems tougher than both the 5/10 and 15/30.

I don't think you'll have a hard time finding action on that one tbh.
I'm not betting though, don't want to worry about sitting at your table + 1 better.

Don't forget grpoker2

whoa whoa Scorcho, did i give you permission to play 3/6?

that fish can only beat triple draw.

Who said "break out the stove" after I tanked @ the table?
Next time, say "post this on 2p2" and provide a link for a 40/5 i had pos on.