i still don't think this is going to provide legalized, beatable-after-rake games for residents of the US

legal poker with massive rake is much much much worse than what we have now

I liked it. This blew my mind a little bit (spoilerish kinda)

Can US citizens now living in Thailand confirm that they can play on pokerstars no problem? Do you think you'll need a thai bank account once this black out happens, or will living in Thailand with a Thai address be enough? Thailand, back to New Zealand, or Argentina. This might be just the kick in the ass I needed to get out of California again.

Also mentioned in the last cliffs I read: non-US players won't be able to play on US-licensed sites, at least for a few years.

weird. I thinking it might finally be the thing that makes me move to california

lol, yep

but ugh. **** LA and **** Commerce.

mother ****ers

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...4/index26.html

post #2508
"Over the weekend, Reid came out and said he would support Internet gambling regulations, taking a turn from his past stance of opposition. It is speculated that Reid changed his stance after receiving a major backing from the gaming industry in the mid-term elections that Reid narrowly won."

"It is speculated" indeed ...

How expensive are apartments in LA?

Looking at getting an apartment in LA? Better start grinding out those 1k-2k games again dude.

www.apartments.com YMMV but I am probably the most frivolous person itt wrt to rent and I decided not to move to Cali because it was too expensive.

Seriously, unless you want to live in the ghetto(as in, a real ghetto, the kind of **** they make movies about) you're looking at $2/square foot/month

should I feel bad that thats less than I pay now?

The nightmare of unbeatable rake is way off base, imo. Harrah's (now Ceasar's) bought out 888, which is Pacific, which lowered its rake to $2 at 6-max tables. So there's no reason to think the rake will go up. The 20% tax is less than Stars and FTP spend trying to circumvent current US legislation. It's more likely that the rake will go down.

all of which might be important if everyone could just sit around doing nothing for 15 months and be ok

i'm only basing this solely on Harrah's past business practices regarding their casino operations here in the United States, which I believe to have a ton more credence than what they did with a piece of **** poker site in england

Harrah's loves to nickel and dime their customers. Look up and down the strip in their properties -- worst blackjack rules ever, worst video poker pay tables, etc.

On top of that, give them a pseudo-monopoly for 1 1/4 - 3 years. I have a hard time believing they'll make the rake friendly to the consumer in this environment.

And if they *do* keep rake at or near the current levels, at the very least they won't make their VIP programs anywhere near as palatable as Stars or FTP. So effectively it's doing the same thing.

I'm not saying it's a good bill, but the rake thing is not the issue. The 15 months is the issue and so are the state opt outs. A year of world travel doesn't sound so awful, though. There will be ways to circumvent the blackout, but yeah, it jacks things up for a lot of us. Not so hot for book sales, imo.

Harrah's is the Wal-Mart of the gambling industry and we're the greeters. Seriously, talk to any seasoned dealer and you're going to hear "Harrah's" make almost every "worst casino to work for" list.

There is almost no chance they don't gouge us from the inside out.

Where's this pseudo monopoly coming from? Unless something's changed, they can't operate for 15 months either, and PS & FTP are permitted at the end of those 15 months. The bill keeps changing, though, so who knows. You're spot on about Harrah's rake. The WSOP rake is awful and so is Ceasar's and all their other spots. That said, I firmly believe that net rake for online poker will continue trending downwards, as it has been for several years.

I heard this too, but is there a source for it?

Hehe, patience... ZOMG had to grind LC/NC threads for years before we acknowledged that he is the supreme master of the one-liner.

Wow... if this actually goes down, it sounds like I may have to get my redneck ass out of TX for a little while. That's such a scary concept, but I prolly need it. Should we be applying for a passport or something right now in case we can't play in the US for 15 months? See, I don't even know wtf I need to do to leave the country, hehe.

Maybe I misunderstood that there will be a complete blackout for 15 minutes. I guess I had it in my head that US-based sites could still play with US-based only players for 15 months as soon as they got their **** together and launched a site (which Harrah's/Caesar's has been working on for a while I guess). At that point FTP/Stars/etc. could apply for a license and could get US access so long as the Dept of Commerce gave the green light.

Still, the very real possibility exists that the Dept of Commerce gives a big F U to outside sites and says "USA ONLY!". Then it's all Harrah's all the time since they'll have the most amount of money to throw at getting a site up and running and popular in the US.

I'm extremely pessimistic about this. But that mostly comes from three things:

1) Give the gov't a chance to get involved and they'll **** it up
2) Give the gov't a chance to get involved and have them in bed with the company(s) you'll have no choice but to give business to and they'll **** it up beyond anything you could ever imagine
3) Harrah's/Caesar's would have no problem raping children if they could profit from it somehow

(the pure irony in my Harrah's bashing here is that they've given me no less than 50-60 nights free in various properties the last 5 years)

Not to mention heavily fragmented markets, as Harrah's poker would have to be US-only, at least for a period of x months, with some states likely opting out (or not opting in, as it were). I wonder if I can be the best LHE player at Harrahs.IN.com.

Also, ****ing PPA. Just let me play my illegal poker, *******s, I don't give a ****. I can deal with the consequences of engaging in illegal actions. Quit trying to legitimize something that clearly has no redeeming value whatsoever to the general public, no matter how many times Greg ZomgFossilman Raymer went to Washington to explain expected value to some senile grandmothers zoning out in front of CSPAN at 3 in the afternoon. And quit trying to spin this as something which will "obviously" benefit poker players in the long run. YES JUST LOSE YOURSELF IN THE GAZE OF THAT FAT **** HARRAH CEO'S FACE, HE LOOKS SO HONEST AND MODEST, HE'LL SURELY GIVE YOU 93% RAKEBACK AND UNLIMITED FISH! ZOMG IT WILL BE JUST LIKE PARTY POKER!!11

The glass is never half full.

There's no point in blaming politicians. I mean, they're obviously crooks, but politicians gonna politic, so, standard ...

Maybe I can sue Harrah's for PTSD after grinding live 30/60 for 40 hrs/week.

on a personal note, it's times like these I'm glad I have a stable, good money job. I'm only losing out on extra cash here. I can't imagine how this is going to uproot the lot of you who play mid+ stakes for a living in the US. It's like they're just trying to make Tryptamean snap.

No, it's pretty much hearsay. It's somewhere in one of the threads in Poker Legislation. But when you really think about it, 20% isn't that huge of a tax. I mean, I pay like 40%.

You should get a passport anyway. Just like I should get a driver's license. And yeah, $Texas.

hide your kids, hide your wife, hide your husbands... i'mma rape everybody up in here

PS and FTP will be applying for licences to operate, if they're going to be allowed who knows. I'm sure Harrah's and the rest will try their hardest and push for them not to be regulated - especially since they're the ones pushing for the 15 month black out.

http://www.billrini.com/2010/12/05/g...bill/#comments

refuted

no but it's certainly worth downloading

also you are making me panic guys, wtf am I gonna do without all the US fish