Surprisingly little of what I've learned about the world has come from watching TV dramas.

Seriously, I was actually feeling some sympathy for your rant until you dropped this little gem.

A "well regulated militai" means a well-trained citizen army.

While there is no mention in the Bill of Right as to "bare arms", millions bare their arms, necks, and even heads every day. As to the popular liberal assertion that "militia" means National Guard, think about it elo. Use that big brain you claim to have - why on earth would the Founding Fathers want to protect the National Guard in the Bill of Rights?

I find it disconcerting that you don't see a danger from your government. Worldwide in the twentieth century there were about 8 million homicides, and 250 million killed by democide. Many of those were in Europe and eastern Europe! Germany was a modern, civil democracy before it became fascist (and used gun control to disarm the people), and there was nothing the common person could do about it.

Germany was an extremely young democracy at the time - 20 years old (along with most of Europe) with most of his population being more used to having an emperor than all kinds of end-of-20th century like democratic and human rights. How many countries do you know with more than 50-100 years of democracy where the goverment suddenly got overthrown by a dictator?

The gypsy rants ITT were extremely offensive imo, and I'm sorry if my post reminds people of those. I should have posted much more carefully, as there have def been some issues with racism ITT in the past (not your gypsy talk specifically, but some posters occasionally make some pretty nasty racial remarks).

Our country isn't chock full of gangsters with guns. But we have to deal with the current situation. We can't go back in time and undo things. Also, my point was that rich, powerful gangsters will find a way to acquire guns regardless of the laws.

I realize now that you guys are confused on what the "War on Drugs" actually is. Hero and I should probably have capitalized it. We are referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Drugs

What Hero and I are talking about IS a US thing.

As I was telling Wolfram, I just realized that you guys may not know what the US "War on Drugs" is. The wikipedia article should help. But it's a very complex subject that most Americans don't understand, so it was silly of me to expect you guys to be experts on it.

Also, I do not mean to say we have a "race problem". Most of us are very proud to live in the most diverse country in the world. It is a good thing. My point is that it also raises some unique problems that people from less diverse countries probably don't understand very well.

You can't just make generalities when you talk about these issues in the US, which seems to be what you guys are trying to do. Tbh I don't know how things work in your countries exactly, but in the US you can drive around a city and encounter a dozen different cultures in an hour.

Making changes that benefit everyone is difficult. What benefits a few cultures in the US may enrage a couple others.

Again, I have not been to Europe, but in Vancouver there seems to be this idea that everyone should come together and share similar values and love each other and live together in peace and happiness. This works a lot better when there is much less cultural diversity. I personally find it rather horrifying and have no idea why anyone would want this, but whatever.

Anyway, sorry to call you ignorant... I shouldn't assume that everyone knows everything about our ******o "War on Drugs".

On government takeovers and such... I find it very surprising that you find this so weird. I would think Europeans would be especially concerned about such possibilities after Hitler won over the German population, conquered most of your countries overnight, and then slaughtered millions of innocent civilians. This stuff really happens.

Another more recent example is The Dirty War in Argentina. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War

Or The Rwandan Genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwanda_genocide

The Patriot Act really scares the **** out of a lot of us here in the US, and rightly so.

Fwiw, I personally don't own any guns and am not into conspiracy theory.

Should I instead fly them into the US and arrange for them to join a gang so they can see what it is really like? Very weak troll attempt




Anyway, on what fueled my rant... I continue to not understand why many Europeans find it necessary to talk trash about the US or take every opportunity to lecture us on political/social issues. From what I have seen, Americans don't do this sort of thing to you.

I personally hate talking about politics and don't really expect many people to agree with me.

I doubt human nature has changed much in the last 60 years

lol you keep saying the US is the "most diverse country in the world"

It's my opinion, and an opinion that many Americans share. Feel free to share yours instead of acting like a dbag.

Yes, I realize a case can be made for Brazil, India, South Africa, New Guinea, and probably plenty of other countries. I also realize this depends heavily on what criteria you use... languages spoken, skin color, religion, country of origin, tribe, political beliefs, etc.

If only there had been an armed militia in Rwanda . . .

Will be at Commerce Tue-Sun! Kinda surprised that I was able to book everything last minute and get decent rates.

Also, will try to stop politarding for now... at least until the next European player successfully trolls me

Wow youre dense if u think your ****ing opinion makes youre country diverse. Or that diversity is something that comes down to opinions at all. That's just mind boggling nonsense, especially considering that u realize there are tons of ways to measure it ("languages spoken, skin color, religion, country of origin, tribe, political beliefs, etc."). Now, show me one where your country is #1.

well, i would worry far more about some foreign country invading us and putting is into concetration camps tbh. This is basically extremist anti-government paranoia the way i see it.


Depends what meaning u give the word, but i wouldnt classify US as very diverse at all tbh. Sure you are mix between a lot of different races and cultures, but the important thing is that most of this "mix" has been living in US for several generations. The immigration is also helped by that most have a good idea about american culture and language.
And in my experience most find their place in the american society. FYI, i have lived 2 years in the US so i am not talking completely out of my ass here.

Go to london, paris or oslo for that matter and u will see diversity at its finest. With whole parts of cities being more or less only habited by muslims, africans etc.. Immigration has failed so bad here and it is creating a lot of hostility actually.

So yea, my point is that u cant blame diversity for your high murder rates.

Wow skill, please chill.

Good points. I claimed I would shut up about this stuff though, so going to do so now

Where did you live and what brought you to the US?

Wow Kettle, please chill.
-Pot

Can you explain this number to me? Are you including people murdered in war by a foreign government?

Meh, this seems to suggest otherwise.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html

hehe, always fun to have a heated discussion on here imo

I lived in baton rouge / LA when i was like 15-17 or so with my family. Father working for exxon

Or maybe because you finally realized you have no idea what you're talking about?

btw, when you discuss a serious topic and say a bunch of stupid things about it, and people point out the weakness/absurdity of your arguments, that's not trolling.

Here's my take on the whole thing:

Everyone knows US began thru a revolution against an oppressive (or at least unfair) ruler, and hence they've got a culture which includes among its core values the right to defend indiv. liberties against the gov't. I also lived in the US for a time and people in general did seem to genuinely distrust and fear the gov't.

So I can somewhat understand the whole 'right to bear arms' thing. A lot of them truly believe this right is what sets them above other countries (at least inasmuch as they know anything about other countries, which few seem to), and is one of the cornerstones of their freedom.

And I don't see how others saying 'you shouldn't think that way' is really going to help because the beliefs run so deep that it's like arguing religion. You can make reasoned arguments for 'xx people die from guns every year' or 'there's another school shooting', but they won't be convinced because in their minds you're telling them 'give up your freedom' and obv. that's not something they are willing to do.

Frankly, I think Americans should be left to run their internal affairs how they see fit. I'm much more bothered when their gov't sends their army around the world blowing other people up in large numbers seemingly on a whim than when they shoot a few of each other. Obviously I don't want anyone to die, but if they are killing each other I don't see how that is the rest of the world's problem (unless it got completely out of hand like a Rwanda kind of thing). Personally I think they'd be better off with gun control but I don't expect them to agree so I don't bother arguing with them about it.

sick sick Dexter season finale

The overwhelming majority of democratic countries began like that.. revolution vs a dictator, or a king, or some kind of emperor. It's not some american thing it's the normal way of things. There are some countries where the revolution was soft, others where it was bloody, but there aren't many democratic countries which didn't go through some kind of a revolution vs an oppressive ruler.

I agree about this part but considering all the dumb topics which have come up here lately and hardly drew any interest by more than a couple of people, at least this one is a decent on and it's generating some lively conversation.

US is ****ed, I don't even care anymore. Gun laws won't change. And why do we need access to better healthcare when USA #1 already has the best in the world. However, what we will be getting is people arguing for the following, as demonstrated on Meet the Press this Sunday:

LOL @ privacy issues. Never seemed to stop them before when they were spying on everyone and routing all of the traffic into Room 641A. I'll leave you with this nugget, also from MtP:

Possibly, but my guess is those countries didn't incorporate their revolution into their constitution and culture in the sense that 'we need to be ready for the next revolution if we need one, so everyone keep a gun at home' kind of thing or the 'it's the fact we were able to keep guns at home that allowed us to overthrow the gov't' kind of thing the way the US did. THAT is pretty specific to the US if I'm not mistaken.

well i guess, but it is pretty predictable dialogue:

Euros: Americans are stupid, what's wrong with you.

Americans: No we're not. Fucck you.

Euros: Yes you are and here's why.

Americans: You don't understand us.

(etc. etc. ad nauseum)

seems about right to me. I admit i will never quite understand the right-wing part of US and i suspect it has to do with the frame of mind and attitude of the people around you when you grow up. In other words: it really is a "cultural thing"