***Official SSSH LC/NC Thread for April*** - Page 15 - Small Stakes Shorthanded Poker

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Page 15 of 158

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Last

04-05-2011 , 06:15 PM

#351

SoSo

veteran

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,276

Quote:

Originally Posted by daiquiri

solid tag is not 3betting tag utg with KTs, QTs, JTs, ATo, KJo
even A9s and AJo is borderline bad
capping vs these two with 88 and ATs is brutal

A9s and AJo is pretty standard tbh.

04-05-2011 , 06:15 PM

#352

ZOMG_RIGGED!

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 17,508

sets of tens beats a set of 99s

04-05-2011 , 06:18 PM

#353

daiquiri

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoSo

A9s and AJo is pretty standard tbh.

idk I once saw Oink arguing on DC iirc that AJo is either a fold or very close to it vs a tag utg and he was like 40/30 and an lhe legend so I'll rather listen to him if you don't mind

04-05-2011 , 06:19 PM

#354

Verno

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,897

Quote:

Originally Posted by daiquiri

solid tag is not 3betting tight winning tag utg with KTs, QTs, JTs, ATo, KJo
even A9s and AJo is borderline bad
capping vs these two with 88 and ATs is brutal
but the real problem is not equity imo, you have like 20-22 vs tight ranges but you have really bad rio, very often you're gonna be showing down while drawing near dead from the flop and having to call multiple raises in the process

In the games that Palo plays in? I disagree. All those crazy nut jobs are 3 betting probably looser than the range I listed. The capper is where I had trouble. Elo caps ATs every time against those guys just for pure tilt value. Tpiranha is probably closer to JJ+ if he is doing the capping. (according to Unguarded).

04-05-2011 , 06:19 PM

#355

ZOMG_RIGGED!

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 17,508

he didnt say it was correct. he said it was standard. you cant argue that what you think should happen is what actually does

04-05-2011 , 06:21 PM

#356

daiquiri

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Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,694

lol at solid high stakes winning regs being "crazy nutjobs".. they may look like that in wide range spots but this is as far from it as it gets

04-05-2011 , 06:24 PM

#357

Tryptamean

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 9,844

big winning high stakes regs often play terribly preflop

04-05-2011 , 06:28 PM

#358

lolmitHE

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,952

What do you guys have against starting threads with your content?

04-05-2011 , 06:28 PM

#359

efficacy

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,483

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tryptamean

big winning high stakes regs often play terribly preflop

And this is why all the fish are flocking to the high stakes games.

04-05-2011 , 06:29 PM

#360

that_pope

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 33,463

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verno

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOm87T9I86E

I think this about sums up my feelings towards most of this forum...

04-05-2011 , 06:29 PM

#361

ZOMG_RIGGED!

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 17,508

no one reads content threads

04-05-2011 , 06:30 PM

#362

daiquiri

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tryptamean

big winning high stakes regs often play terribly preflop

well ok.. but is it a good idea stoving an overly loose range by both the 3bettor and a capper based on "sometimes they play terribly preflop", to justify a call by BB?

04-05-2011 , 06:32 PM

#363

ZOMG_RIGGED!

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 17,508

is it a good idea to stove an overly tight one because sometimes they dont?

04-05-2011 , 06:34 PM

#364

efficacy

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,483

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verno

As you can see, our equity is 24%. We only need 25% correct?

If you are just looking at hot / cold equity, I think we only need 18%.

04-05-2011 , 06:35 PM

#365

daiquiri

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Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED!

is it a good idea to stove an overly tight one because sometimes they dont?

well since we are talking about winning high stakes regs, my assumption would be that the word "sometimes" belongs to the sentence where they play terribly and not where they don't

04-05-2011 , 06:36 PM

#366

Verno

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,897

Alright, Daiq, I give up. Here is the stove you want to see and it is a clear fold. Never, ever call here and you will make millions.

840,570,192 games 1.875 secs 448,304,102 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 12.300% 11.70% 00.62% 98304715 5222975.92 { 77+, A8s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+, QJo }
Hand 1: 24.533% 24.11% 00.45% 202667835 3815306.92 { 88+, ATs+, KTs+, QJs, AJo+ }
Hand 2: 53.891% 53.51% 00.45% 449805798 3774543.58 { JJ+ }
Hand 3: 09.275% 08.74% 00.54% 73498035 4566990.58 { TT }

04-05-2011 , 06:37 PM

#367

ZOMG_RIGGED!

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 17,508

just because you thinks its terrible doesnt mean it is

04-05-2011 , 06:37 PM

#368

Palomino

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3,742

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolmitHE

What do you guys have against starting threads with your content?

Well, the high stakes forum is lol when it comes to content. And I didn't want to post it in SSSH. So, it goes here, since a ton of high stakes players post here. This is actually where I post most of my strat questions since I don't pot many anyway.

04-05-2011 , 06:41 PM

#369

daiquiri

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verno

ok let me quote myself because you obviously skipped this part

Quote:

Originally Posted by daiquiri

but the real problem is not equity imo, you have like 20-22 vs tight ranges but you have really bad rio, very often you're gonna be showing down while drawing near dead from the flop and having to call multiple raises in the process

+you are gonna be check/folding many flops too

fwiw I'm not 100% certain whether it's a fold or not, although I think it is, I was mainly arguing that your ranges were way off

04-05-2011 , 06:43 PM

#370

Verno

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,897

Quote:

Originally Posted by efficacy

If you are just looking at hot / cold equity, I think we only need 18%.

What doe this mean? What is hot/cold equity?

DR. VN explained it as this...

It's your equity if you play the hand out without betting. Let's say you're in the BB in a limit game with T5o, a good player raises from EP, it folds to you. You have enough hot/cold equity to call. You would call if it put you all-in. But since your hand will be very tough to play on future streets you're better off folding preflop. The reverse may happen. Sometimes you don't have enough hot/cold equity to call, but should call because future streets will benefit you.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...75&postcount=2

04-05-2011 , 06:45 PM

#371

ZOMG_RIGGED!

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 17,508

Too much cereal in this thread

Let Fred's slacks relax you

http://www.break.com/usercontent/200...-brooks-384390

04-05-2011 , 06:46 PM

#372

daiquiri

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,694

Verno stove gives you hot/cold equity, so the hands are considered all-in
that's why I said it's not the biggest factor here, because you will still have to play postflop which means you won't always realize your equity and it will very often mean horrible reverse implied odds in this spot
stove can only give you some guidelines here

04-05-2011 , 06:47 PM

#373

ZOMG_RIGGED!

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 17,508

thta may be the worst application of RIo ever

04-05-2011 , 06:47 PM

#374

efficacy

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,483

The ranges I pick off the top of my head give hero 22% equity.

22% of 16.5 SB is 3.63SB, so hero profits 0.63SB with a preflop call.

I have no idea if hero can lose less than that postflop on average though.