Unknown villain, just sat down.

Poker Stars $1/$2 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
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Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with K A
4 folds, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls

Flop: (6 SB) Q 2 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls

Turn: (5 BB) 6 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero ??

Calling down has to be spew, the board is so dry there is nothing I beat except worse A-high..and king high, and 45

Just fold. You can't win them all.

- SB could have an A2 or A3 meaning your drawing to three outs, and if an ace comes your going to get smacked for two big bets on the river.

- If he has a pocket pair or a Q, a call only marginally profitable anyway.

Is there some kind of curse on your BvB play that causes you never to pair ?

45 just got there right
nothing else indeed that you beat except a random bluff which is unlikely after you 3bet him pf (people don't really come over the top with total air in the first hand vs unknown preflop 3bettors imo unless they are maniacal)
so I just fold

i have been just calling here PF, and calling down most board UI, and if you hit an A, no one will believe you have an A, since you just called PF

Against super-aggressive opponents that like to 3 barrel this is a great line.

Against guys who slow down, 3 bet pre is in the play.

In the hand in question call down, and call any river too.

you have enough odd to call the turn even assuming he never C.r pure bluff the flop.

6,591,240 games 2.800 secs 2,354,014 games/sec

Board: Qh 2s 3c 6s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 67.813% 66.73% 01.19% 4398426 78491.00 { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, K3s-K2s, Q2s+, J9s+, J3s-J2s, T9s, T3s-T2s, 93s-92s, 73s, 63s+, 53s+, 43s, A9o+, A5o-A2o, KTo+, K3o-K2o, Q3o+ }
Hand 1: 32.187% 31.05% 01.19% 2046501 78491.50 { AhKd }



A river T,J, and 5 will only give you around low 20ish equity so I would fold to those since you need around 33% equity to call river. Any other cards will give you around 28% which is enough since sometime he will pure bluff w/o any gutshot or ace high.





In his view this is a perfect flop for a c.r hu pure bluff w anything. your 3 betting range is still pretty wide if he know you don't have an Q you can only call with ace high and pp. And he doesn't have to worry about the 3 or 2 hitting your range you never 3 betting w k3o, etc. And if you have ace high you probably going to fold to a 3 barrel.

There's a lot of hands in your given range that he isn't usually check raising on the flop, ie. KTs+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, A5o-A2o, KTo+, etc., so your equity isn't near that good.

most of them are suited connector so the combo aren't a lot.also i didn't discount out x2 because people don't c/r bottom pair. And we haven't consider people do pure bluff sometime which they should.

I like this line, but then I get 3-outered on the river or they hit some random pair.

I keep doing this and I end up spewing.



I'm convinced BvB is rigged.

The villain probably hit a queen. One of the biggest problems I have is knowing what to do against an unknown and this is one of those cases. I think the correct play is unless you have a read that the villain gets frisky in blind battles or likes to c/r draws, this is a fold. Maybe you call the raise and c/f the turn, but I'm not even sure if that is correct.

I think that doing this in position vs. average 1/2 6m player is burning money. For one, a lot of these guys like to cap to "regain initiative" or "wave epeen" or whatever reason a 1/2 player does anything. Also, I'm not sure that they're reading you as having an A. Balance here is a bad plan. If someone were semi-decent enough to think about these things then, the second point is about this:
Let's see, how many 3 betting hands hit this flop? Darned few. If he has any idea about re-stealing, the would be the board. You've got 6 outs (he's capping AQ and some KQ, right?) and you still might be ahead. Cole or anyone else, as an exercise to the reader, how often does your hand have to be good to justify calling down given your equity against his range makes the calldown cheap.

Let's bloat the pot and give up easy. That sounds like a plan for 6m success.

[x] confirmed showdown monkey here

This is really negative. Good LHE players are massive optimists.

How do so many of you guys have +40% wtsd, while winning with less than 52% w$sd if you're folding these rivers?


I'm not arguing. I just don't get it. Maybe I don't understand what these stats represent?

Well seeing how it is just a blind battle with no dead money, both players are putting in an equal amount of chips. We have to win at least 50% of the time or more to make calling down profitable. Basically, we need villain to be bluffing the c/r or c/r'ing their draws a good portion of the time.

As daiquiri pointed out, the villain bluffing the c/r is unlikely because of the hero's PF 3!.

u guys really need to play more hu and people still take shot at you even if you 3 bet pf. that why u see people capping light oop thinking it a good idea w craps same idea as a c.r a dry flop.

Sorry, cool money, this is a fail for the maths. You're ignoring the fact that some of the money is already in the pot and you can only get it back by winning it out.

are you seeing how much easier this hand plays out if you don't 3bet

PF: he raises, you call


flop Qxx r

he bets, you call

turn brick

he bets, you call


now, when you put money in on the turn, the pot is smaller, and you are beating a large portion of his range.


when you 3bet PF, then he c/r, now you are a dog when money goes in on the turn.


AND, if you just call with KK and AK, when the flop is A86, and you raise, he's going to put you on some gutshot or 89 and go ape**** with A3

I don't get it. How does 3betting PF change opponent's hole cards?

because when he bets the turn when you just call pf, and call the flop, he could be barreling off with T high, a worse Ax, and anything really


once you 3bet PF, and then he cr the flop, his hand is weighted more towards pairs and good draws.

Generally, not 3 betting makes a hand harder to play. Against decent opponents, the additional profit is worth the effort. There is a clarify effect of putting in action that represents the true strength of your hand (more FR than with wider ranges). I like not 3 betting OOP against people who read hands. I'm working this into my 5/T game, and I find myself in a lot of uncomfortable spots; spots where I'd be very comfortable playing with initiative and getting my FE a fair bit of the time. All that doesn't apply to 1/2, imo.

I still suspect lower limit players to commit to hands at times. A guy with ATs or AJs might just go nuts with you b/c they have a monster PF. You get additional bad action by playing fast, instead of playing slow. I've seen plenty of people just try to win hands, and vs. the crazy spew ranges, he has a monster. I'm willing to be sold on not re-raising out of position vs. all opponents, but I'm not there at this point. My current belief is that range balancing this way is an overall loser against weak competition.

but in this hand, you are just setting yourself up to fold he best hand, or get value pounded by 58o


are you advocating just blindly calling down after 3betting PF with AK and getting c/r on this flop?


i don't know why ppl look for ways to fold great hands HU

I think you stated a position for me and then attacked it, tbh.

Thanks. I understand that when he c/r's a PF 3-bettor, his hand figures to be stronger. But he still has the same two cards he was dealt. I guess my real question would be:

Would we rather call the turn with say, 28% equity in a bigger, or smaller pot? This is confusing (and perhaps counter-intuitive) to me...

On the one hand, I'd want the pot to be bigger when I'm behind to make calling with a worse hand less of a mistake. Then again, if sb is bluffing, HE'S the one making the bigger mistake by bluffing in a smaller pot.

I'm bad at math and it's very confusing to me.

If I knew the flop would be Q32 and we'd get c/r on the flop, I think that keeping the pot smaller is a fine idea. Not sure what any of this has to do with not 3 betting bad players OOP, tbh. Your setup for not raising PF is based on the results of this particular flop.

I can't help wondering if you're espousing DeathDonkey of about 18 months ago. You're probably not, but it sure seems like last year's DC vids to me. Since DD doesn't play this way any more, it all becomes more murky. I'm still waiting for you to explain why we shouldn't 3 bet OOP, even against poor opposition. If it is because we get c/r on this dry, Q high flop, I'm not there with you.

its not so much his cards will be different, its just when we just meekly call, the frequency with which he's bluffing the turn is way higher than if he c/r us on the flop after we 3bet PF


also, we get to sandbag with hands like AK, KK, QQ, etc

so when the flop comes 8h 4x3x and we call, and the turn is the Ah, when we raise the turn, i assure you he won't think AK is in our range, so if he has an A, he will spew.

he also wont fold ANYTHING because he thinks we have some Qh 5h hand

so it's keeping it small when we miss, and setting them up to spew when we hit, because 'we can't have AK, we didn't 3bet"

it's more for disguise, and showing down cheaply UI, and getting more money than we should when we actually hit something

i just want to point out, i never said 3betting PF was bad, it's actually the standard play.

i'm just trying to give other players some ideas on how to play big hands HU