Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
How much action with a set? 3/6 How much action with a set? 3/6

01-19-2008 , 01:22 AM
Villain is 50/25/3, he plays his overpairs very fast, maybe puts in a little too much action. Should I be bet/3betting this river, bet/calling or check/calling after his turn cap? The second question is whether it matters that much.

Poker Stars $3.00/$6.00 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with 7 7
2 folds, aCO raises, BTN calls, Hero clls, 1 fold

Flop: (3.5 BB) A 7 T (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, BTN folds, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Hero caps!, CO calls

Turn: (7.5 BB) Q (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO caps!, Hero calls

River: (15.5 BB) 4 (2 players)
01-19-2008 , 01:24 AM
Checkraise-call or cap seems good.
01-19-2008 , 02:15 AM
His range when he caps the flop is probably AK (discounted), A7, AT, AA, TT, KdJd, perhaps other flush draws he's getting super frisky with. You have like 70% equity, so your cap is good. When he raises the turn, unless he's insane, you're looking at KdJd, AA, TT, AT, A7, and I think that A7 and AT have to be discounted a little bit. Against that range, not discounting AT or A7, you have like 43% equity, and once you discount A7 and AT, it's more like 50%. So your turn 3 bet is pretty thin, really. When he caps I think you're behind like 75% of the time, so you can go ahead and c/c the river. And if he is capping with AT or AQ or something like that, he's going to bet the river, so it's not like you lose a bet when you're ahead. So yeah, I think anything but c/c the river is pretty bad unless you have a read that he's a complete maniac. More than just putting in an extra bet or two with an overpair.
01-19-2008 , 02:32 AM
I'm not sure you should 3bet the turn, but given you did, anything other than c/c this river is suicidal.

He can have KJ, AA, QQ, and TT.

Your hand is good, but not good enough for 2 or 4 bets on the river.
01-19-2008 , 02:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by istewart
Checkraise-call or cap seems good.

no, this is completely wrong.

50/25/3 seems aggressive, but without a read that he's ******ed, putting in 3 or 4 bets here is going to be a -2BB or -3BB play.
01-19-2008 , 02:54 AM
This is the hand I thought he may have overplayed his overpair. It's not unreasonable, though, and I may have in fact underplayed my overpair. His AF was obviously lower before this hand, though. Did I miss a bet on the turn or river? Or is waiting until the turn to raise a better line than 3-betting the flop?

Poker Stars $3.00/$6.00 Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with K K
UTG calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero caps!, BB calls, UTG calls

Flop: (6.167 BB) 2 2 T (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB raises, UTG folds, Hero 3-bets, BB caps!, Hero calls

Turn: (10.167 BB) 6 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls

River: (12.167 BB) 5 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls
01-19-2008 , 02:55 AM
FWIW, my plan was to C/C my set of sevens, but I mis-clicked and check-raised. It was pretty funny actually.
01-19-2008 , 02:56 AM
He played his QQ fine.
01-19-2008 , 02:58 AM
villain is super aggro so i am putting in action on the river, is his postflop is aggression is lower u can make a case for keeping the pot not too big, u have pokertracker for a reason, with a 3 aggression i jam river hard
01-19-2008 , 02:59 AM
giant, in the second hand i reraise turn and if he 3 bets i fault to just call down, u are weigh in combo to AA, u need to get some more value from JJ or QQ IMO
01-19-2008 , 03:09 AM
In the KK vs. QQ hand if his range is TT+, AhKh, AhQh, AhJh, ATs, which seems reasonable, maybe discounting ATs and some of the flush draws, my equity on the turn is about 60%, so I clearly missed a raise.

I guess I leveled myself here, because I put myself on a range of TT+,AhKh,AhQh once I cap pre and 3bet the flop. He only has 34% equity against this range and is only way ahead of six combos while he's way behind 15 combos and basically a flip with the other two. Maybe I need to be 3-betting more flops here? Capping lighter preflop? Of course, he's probably not putting me on a range, he's probably just thinking, "I have Queens on a good flop."
01-19-2008 , 03:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyrocket
villain is super aggro so i am putting in action on the river, is his postflop is aggression is lower u can make a case for keeping the pot not too big, u have pokertracker for a reason, with a 3 aggression i jam river hard


you guys are missing the point

sometimes, a 50-25 player is a decent player, but goes spaztic.

Someone about me had a good post, saying, when the guy raises the turn, you have equity to 3bet the turn, but it's close. I'd 3bet the turn. When he caps, you are in trouble.

You lose to so, so many combs, and beat so few.

You lose to 6 combos of AA, QQ and TT, there is 18, and you lose to another 16 combos of KJ.

You are ahead of AQ, AT, and QT.

Regardless, putting 4 bets in on this river is ******ed unless you have a solid read he's crazy.

Him raise capping an overpair on a Txx board does not qualify for "crazy"

I'm just baffled at how many of you want to put 4 bets in on this river.
01-19-2008 , 04:05 AM
I agree with your sentiment, HIP, but not your math. I'm behind 3 combos of AA, QQ, and TT, for 9 combos, and 1 combo of KJs. There are 15 combos of KJ which beat me, but they are all ridiculous so need to be at least somewhat (heavily?) discounted. I'm ahead of 9 combos of AT, 3 combos of A7, and 9 combos of AQ. That gives 24:21 in his favor, but different hands have to be weighted differently. KJo certainly doesn't always take this line, and the two pair hands probably let up to my turn 3-bet a good percentage of the time. The sets and KdJd certainly cap 100%.
01-19-2008 , 05:13 AM
If you C/R and get 3bet I can pretty much guarantee that those sevens aren't any good. I usually bet/call this river. 3 betting would be silly.
01-19-2008 , 07:32 AM
Maybe capping the river is excessive but I have no reason to really discount any of the AT combos for this guy this so far and I think you will see that a lot. If he can have KJ here that isn't KdJd then he can have tons of weird ****. Not sure I would discount any of the AQ combos either.
01-19-2008 , 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHip41

50/25/3 seems aggressive, but without a read that he's ******ed, putting in 3 or 4 bets here is going to be a -2BB or -3BB play.
Why do you think this guy, let alone tons of aggressive LAGs or LAGTAGS, could not show up with AT or AQ here? There's no flush and we ~never have a straight.

Also I would say 50/25/3 is more than "seeming aggressive."
01-19-2008 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
If he can have KJ here that isn't KdJd then he can have tons of weird ****.
No he can´t because it is far more likely that he goes nuts on turn with the nuts.
I think check/calling the river is the best option.I´f I´m feeling frisky I would donk river so that only 3 more bets goes in the pot in worst case scenario.But I don´t like that option either since even he would find it suicidal to raise the river with a worse hand. Unless he is on crack

      
m