12 hands, played 9 of them

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is UTG with 6 6
Hero raises, 2 folds, BTN calls, SB calls, BB calls

Flop: (8 SB) 2 K 7 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, BTN folds, SB calls, BB calls

Turn: (5.5 BB) 6 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, SB calls

River: (11.5 BB) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero

Lose 2 behind win 1 when ahead. Would he really check-raise river with 2 pair lower sets?

Lets discount KK, his likely hands are, 22,77, 67...

Hmm.. I guess I kinda answered my own question...

looks like 2 pair, keep going on river IMO. please change your avatar.

You choose

http://graphics.boston.com/resize/bo..._1505/539w.jpg

Or

http://www.americanaustralian.org/tp...evinRudd-m.jpg

He seems to like his hand, and I don't even know what to put in his range. If we need to include 98, then that sucks all the value out of a 3-bet, but surely 98 should be discounted a little (even if Villain would peel the flop with it -- and, hell, he probably would, bdfd or not -- he wouldn't necessarily semibluff checkraise the turn with an OESD).

Okay, then, let's try this without 98 and see where we are:

76 (3 combos)
22 (3 combos)

77 (3 combos)

Oversimplified, to be sure, but that's 2:1, which is approximately what we're looking for. Add in some KK and 98 and we should just call. Figure Villain for an additional 2 combos of 72 (suited) and maybe even a little 72o and the case for a raise is strengthened. Meanwhile, if we're considering 98, then I suppose we also should consider 65. (But note that 98 is 16 combos when undiscounted whereas the most 65 can be is 3 combos.) And add in the high probability that Villain sucks and probably can't evaluate the strength of his hand very well and the case for a raise is again strengthened.

But, TBH, I probably just call at the table in the face of this double big-street checkraise unless I have some evidence of LAG tendencies for Villain. There's a three-straight on the board, and we don't even have more than 2:1 versus the most obvious sets and two pair hands.

i cant ever ever ever imagine not 3betting this turn and not caring if he caps

Crap, I let the commentary in the OP lead me too much. K7, K2 and K6 all need to be considered.

The possibility of these additional two-pair hands adds to the case for a 3-bet, and I think we can discount 98 enough to 3-bet/call.

Edit: Meanwhile, though, if the flop had come K76, the 5 fell on the turn, a blank hit on the river, and the action throughout the hand was the same, I would just call the river checkraise and in fact would be thinking of it as a crying call.

Yeah, the turn 3-bet is obvious, but that's not what Hero is asking about.

I dont get it?

I don't know anything about your PM or your views of him but google image search came up with this, maybe go with it?



As for the hand, I three bet. The reasoning is perhaps bad, but he took a screwy line. The same number of bets go in if he caps and leads, he doesn't risk you checking behind, you're more likely to call down if he takes the cap-lead line with whatever you could have since the check-raise looks stronger to most people and similarly you are more likely to raise his river bet and if he 3-bets he would gain a bet relative to you just calling his check-raise and if you 3-bet his check raise and he caps it's the same. Hope that made sense since it got pretty wordy.

Anyway, if the five didn't improve his hand his line sucks. That tells me he's either a fancy-playing jackass or the five improved his hand. Since the 5 could only improve his hand if he picked up 2 pair (which we beat), a set (which we beat) or a straight in which case he called on the flop with nothing but 3 to a straight. Only that last bit hurts, and I would say two pair is most likely even though that means he check-raised the turn with just one pair. Actually looking again he could have something like 85 and decided to get fancy when he rivered a pair. So basically there is some combination of the guy making weird raises and the 5 improving his hand, which is fine for us most of the time. Given that I'm jamming.

IMO this hand is a lot different than the KQ hand where I think you overplayed it. The reason for that is that on the KQ hand there are some hands that make sense for him to have that (edit) beat you. Here 98 makes a little bit of sense if he made a little bit of a loose call on the flop and he was semibluffing the turn, but otherwise there is absolutely nothing that beats you that makes any sense. For that matter there aren't any hands you beat that make sense other than maybe 55 where he put you on overs and then decided to call down when you told him you were ahead, then got (un)lucky and spiked a set.

When villains take lines that make no sense in general or just make no sense for hands that beat you I don't think you can go wrong jamming it with a set.

I think that 6 is a blank alot. His line of a typical player who hit the jackpot on the flop, and then all of a suddent comes alive when a blank hits.

I still raise. Occationally this is 77, or a shocker 89 but only as often as 22.

K7,67,K6 still all real possibilities to give you enough of an edge to raise.

Edit:

Also with no reads, you can't rule KQ type hands out of this.

I keep going here especially cause of this

I assume the table is made up of mostly unknown players, so to them you have to look pretty laggy. Make sure you raise fast so he quickly caps his two pair

Sorry that 12 hands, played 9 of them, was him not me, as in, his vpip is 75% over 12 hands

OIC




RAISE

I raise quickly and prepare myself to laugh instead of get pissed when I see 98. KK would be funny, so I don't even care cuz it's worth the money and 77 oh well we got hosed. But definitely throw something if he has 84 or 43. But ya, he's got silly hands like K5, K7, K2, 76, 22, TT, who really knows but lots and lots of stuff. Maybe he's even a maniac and has air.

JaredL, thanks once again for the lengthy explanation, always appreciated. I dont hate or like Kevin Rudd, just thought it was slightly amusing to use his name. Nice pic btw. When I multi table, I tend to not reason as well in situations like these. Assuming he plays 77 and 22 exactly the same way,canceling each other out, I do get value from other hands. I just called

He had

I meant river. :P

Regarding villain having 22 or 77, does anyone think its 22 more than 77 bc 22 is more apt to call the 3bet and not cap?

With 77 here as villain I am capping but not with 22. With 77 here as hero I am jamming the whole way

So, on the turn, you stop raising 22 because you're afraid of a better hand. On the river, you raise 22 because...?

3bet, 5bet, call a 6 bet

Based on his actions, I'd say the river improved his hand. Which means he has a straight or 2-pair. But he's probably not peeling the flop with most hands that can make a straight. I'd discount those a lot. So yeah, 3-bet.