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Flush over Flush? Flush over Flush?

07-14-2008 , 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oink
Up through all the stakes I played you will find TAGs and LAGTAGs who will overplay sets or AsKx or AxKs in this spot.
Sure. I've seen maniacs obviously do it, fish and donkeys who don't know how to properly value their hands in relation to the board and action do it, LagTags do it, and occassionally solid Tags do it. But not too much solid Tags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oink
And to get the information that this particular TAG or LAGTAG WONT do that is very difficult to obtain with enough certainty to fold getting those odds.
Well I more than agree with you on that. It's impossible from the OP's description, "Villain is TAG" to know anything about the nuances of how he plays. So it seems most people want to error on the side of caution, and not risk fold the best hand. I'm just pretty sure that a three bet on a big street on a flush board is the nuts more than say 12:1 on average. Most seem to disagree. Oddly to me they disagree so strongly. I have lost so much money calling three bets on big streets with less than the nuts that I really wonder what games these people are playing in.

Now remember that 12:1 I mention doesn't count donkeys, aggrotards, lagrotards, goofballs, maniacs, players on tilt, Bottom pair flop donkers into two or three players, players that just took a bad beat, players going all in or close to it, and other assorted overaggressive characters. If your opponent is one of those types, by all means I would recommend a call down. Against a lot of people who post on this forum, I would recommend a call down.

That brings us to how Hero plays and how the people making recommendations to call down play. If they play in a highly aggressive style, then they are going to get played back at a lot harder than people will generally play back at me after they get to know my style. They learn that when I 3Bet the turn, I have the nuts or something very strong and they can just call down so I can show it to them. But if they get to the point where they become able to lay down hands, then I start robbing them. And if they come over the top of me at that point, I know they are rarely bluffing.
07-14-2008 , 10:11 PM
i'm shocked that there are people who wouldn't cap the turn with AsKx

There really aren't that many flushes a villain can have on QJT when you have the As. The cap can't get 5bet. If your opponent has a flush you're still drawing live.

I really don't think it's the least bit bad to be capping AsKx as BB. Whatever, this thread has kind of run its course.
07-14-2008 , 10:21 PM
K9 K8 K7 K6 K5 98 97 87 76 and sometimes a few other random combos is a decent amount. AsK is drawing dead to two combos and drawing to 6 a lot of the other times because the 9s is often a dead out. capping is bad
07-14-2008 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boc4life
i'm shocked that there are people who wouldn't cap the turn with AsKx

There really aren't that many flushes a villain can have on QJT when you have the As. The cap can't get 5bet. If your opponent has a flush you're still drawing live.

I really don't think it's the least bit bad to be capping AsKx as BB. Whatever, this thread has kind of run its course.
I think it's just a matter of who you are up against. If you are against someone who knows how to hand read then a turn cap is too much even with AsKx.
07-28-2008 , 01:51 AM
So OP, What was the result of the hand?

      
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