Difficult turn decision with QQ - Small Stakes Shorthanded Poker

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Difficult turn decision with QQ

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02-18-2011 , 05:45 PM

Fantam

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,362

This was my first hand at the table, although I subsequently noticed that villain was about 28/20 over approx 200 hands once my HUD came up.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with Q

3 folds, BTN raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps!, 1 fold, SB calls

Flop: (10 SB) 5

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls

Turn: (6 BB) T

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero...?

When villain donked into me on the turn, I could not think of many hands in his pf 3-betting range that I would now beat.

Your thoughts ?

02-18-2011 , 05:48 PM

MicroGrinder84

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,289

You have 4-6 outs, maybe more => call. Fold river to spades only (except Ks obv).

02-18-2011 , 08:42 PM

pg_780

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,459

I think it might be a call turn, fold non K or Q river.

A river call would beat KJ, only a couple QJ's. It's very difficult for him to have a non-pair flush draw.

02-19-2011 , 09:23 AM

DonkeyOnTilt

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,002

I'd call, you may have hidden outs with an A or a 5 as well. This looks like JT or KQ to me.

02-19-2011 , 09:27 AM

kikadell

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,046

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicroGrinder84

You have 4-6 outs, maybe more => call. Fold river to spades only (except Ks obv).

i dont really expect this type of player to play a FD this way...

02-19-2011 , 11:10 AM

Fantam

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,362

Thankyou for your responses.

I did in fact call the turn hoping to improve.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with Q

3 folds, BTN raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps!, 1 fold, SB calls

Flop: (10 SB) 5

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls

Turn: (6 BB) T

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls

River: (8 BB) A

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero ...?

and then I was not sure whether the river was worth a call.

What do you think ?

02-19-2011 , 11:14 AM

dragon1893

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 11,157

easy call when another ace shows up

02-19-2011 , 11:24 AM

kikadell

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,046

if u call the turn u gotta call the river

thats what makes the turn so gross, ur basically making a decision to risk 2 bets

02-19-2011 , 11:30 AM

Lemonlight

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 61

The ace is a good card for you, so I would call.

His line is odd, and you now beat 9 combos of J10 that might play like that, and only need to win 10% to break even.

I have a hard time coming up with 80+ other combos that 3xs, calls, donks and beat you...

02-19-2011 , 02:05 PM

#10

Fantam

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,362

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon1893

easy call when another ace shows up

I can see that the river Ace makes it less likely for villain to have an Ax hand, but why do you think the river call now becomes easy ?

02-19-2011 , 02:52 PM

#11

pg_780

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,459

Quote:

Originally Posted by kikadell

if u call the turn u gotta call the river

thats what makes the turn so gross, ur basically making a decision to risk 2 bets

I don't buy the "if you call the turn, you gotta call the river" cliche. However, once the ace comes it becomes a crying call.

02-19-2011 , 03:34 PM

#12

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantam

I can see that the river Ace makes it less likely for villain to have an Ax hand, but why do you think the river call now becomes easy ?

because we have the nuts

to everyone folding, stop folding

02-20-2011 , 10:38 AM

#13

DonkeyOnTilt

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,002

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantam

I can see that the river Ace makes it less likely for villain to have an Ax hand, but why do you think the river call now becomes easy ?

Why is he donking the turn? He improved or he's bluffing or he's ******ed. River means you now beat JT in addition to his bluffs. If he has better he has better. Now that you're here its criminal to fold IMO. Snap call.

02-21-2011 , 06:49 AM

#14

dragon1893

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 11,157

imo if you can't call river, you should go back in time and fold turn

02-21-2011 , 10:34 AM

#15

Fantam

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,362

I did call the river and SB showed K

.

In passing, I think that it would have been a better play for SB to c/r the turn as opposed to donk.

Thankyou for your responses.

02-21-2011 , 04:04 PM

#16

reaper6788

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,860

If he c/r turn we can call For set and straight outs then fold river right?

02-21-2011 , 05:55 PM

#17

Lemonlight

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 61

Dont we just take a free card if he checks? It feels like our hand can only improve, and his check/call/check range must have more aces than jacks in it?

02-21-2011 , 07:49 PM

#18

Fantam

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,362

If he c/r turn we can definately call for set and straight outs.

I think you have a very good consideration Lemonlight.

I find myself automatically barrelling in these situations, when checking behind (or value checking) may be better, too often.

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