Defensive check or trap on turn? - Small Stakes Shorthanded Poker

Two Plus Two Forums Archived Forums Strategy Small Stakes Shorthanded

Defensive check or trap on turn?

...

05-01-2008 , 08:04 AM

Gurravasa

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,759

Only 16 hands with villain where he has done nothing spectacular.

$10/$20 Limit Hold'em (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 2: HJ ( $163 )
Seat 3: CO ( $942.2 )
Seat 4: Hero ( $1367.87 )
Seat 6: SB ( $650.75 )
Seat 8: BB ( $639.34 )

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero T

HJ folds.
CO folds.
hero raises [$20].
SB folds.
BB calls [$10].

Flop 3

BB checks.
Hero bets [$10].
BB raises [$20].
Hero raises [$20].
BB raises [$20].
Hero calls [$10].

Turn K

BB checks.
Hero?

05-01-2008 , 08:51 AM

TimovieMan

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,983

*grunch*

Everything just got there. I think I'll go defensive, and check this turn through, and call any non-T, non-9 river.

If I spike a T or 9, I'm prepared to pay off the max to his QcJc.

05-02-2008 , 12:21 AM

Gurravasa

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,759

bump

05-02-2008 , 12:30 AM

jdawg1994

adept

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 709

I'd check.

He either has a set and is just going to call you down, or is trying to get trixy with a cap -> check raise trap.

I think I might still call a river that is not a J or a club

05-02-2008 , 12:51 AM

Klak

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 627

check and call down unless something scary comes out or you improve

05-02-2008 , 03:14 AM

BigBadBabar

California Elephant

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 21,682

check

05-02-2008 , 03:30 AM

FlopYouDead

adept

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 911

I'd bet.

I don't see why he's checking a made hand regardless of what it is. The free card is dangerous no matter his holding. No hand is safe. I suspect he hated that card as much as you and I'd be looking for a naked ten here a lot. It's just a button open and a flat call from the bb. No point looking for sets. A sexy on this turn makes zero sense to me. Our hand is likely best but vulnerable.

If you are villain what hands do you cap flop with and check this turn?

05-02-2008 , 09:07 AM

skillgambler

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,729

i'd 3bet the flop and bet the turn

05-02-2008 , 09:35 AM

Volkan-20

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 224

Quote:

Originally Posted by skillgambler

i'd 3bet the flop and bet the turn

He did but it got capped.

Hm I honestly cant think of a hand I would play this way being villain. It really looks as though hes scared of that flush. But what could he hold?
33? but he should bet that imo. 2 pair hands are not that likely because he might not defend T3, 9,3, he could hold T9 obviously. Maybe an overplayed toppair, something like QT, JT with a club.
Against those you should bet imo.

If he has the flush he will c/r here always, dunno if i could find a fold though.

05-02-2008 , 09:37 AM

#10

skillgambler

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,729

i suck.

05-02-2008 , 11:35 AM

#11

FlopYouDead

adept

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 911

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volkan-20

Don't forget a FPS AA QQ JJ.

05-02-2008 , 11:54 AM

#12

Flintoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,542

I'd check and bet river if he checks again.

If he c/r river well...his crappy sexy play got the same result anyway.

05-05-2008 , 03:05 AM

#13

Gurravasa

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,759

Thanks for your posts. I think a check is best on this turn since even if he don't have a flush there are many other hands that he could cap flop with that has us beat. He probably will checkraise sometimes and then we'll have a hard time folding.

05-05-2008 , 07:39 PM

#14

FlopYouDead

adept

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 911

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurravasa

I guess no one liked my question. I'll rephrase:

Exactly what hands would we check turn with here that beat bottom 2p in villain's seat?

Answer: None

So the assumed consensus is that we would never have a better hand here if we were villain, but the stated consensus is that we are probably behind and should not bet.

This cannot be good thinking.

05-05-2008 , 08:47 PM

#15

lippy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 8,323

He went nuts w/ top pair and is regretting it when the flush came in. I think not betting this turn is really bad.

Stoving aside, when someone checks to you on the turn here and you don't bet, you're burning dollars. I don't want people thinking they can cap the flop w/ 87 here and get two free cards.

I bet and call down, although I don't think folding the river UI is bad and may be correct.

05-06-2008 , 01:22 AM

#16

GiantBuddha

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,910

Quote:

Originally Posted by lippy

I think not betting this turn is really bad.

The pot's large and half the deck sucks. I often check in spots like these where villain's line makes no sense, and I think that's a leak.

05-06-2008 , 08:44 AM

#17

Gurravasa

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,759

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlopYouDead

I agree that villains line makes little sense. It's quite likely he has AT but you can't discard the possibility that he has a set or is making a fancy play with a flush. You also have to think of how he will play his AT if we bet. He may fold to a bet but bet or call on river if we check.

05-06-2008 , 10:36 AM

#18

Burnsabre

banned

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,627

Hes not folding anything but a missed draw when he caps this flop... It looks a lot like AT here, now hes all the sudden scared of KT, and any of the draws that you could have that just got there. I bet the turn and also bet a blank river. If he sexys, well good for him, I might fold the river UI but would need more history than 16 hands to do it.

...