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Check this flop? Check this flop?

07-17-2008 , 11:10 PM
This guy is pretty nitty. He's around 26/8/1 over a small sample. I don't have much more than that, other than he seems pretty straight forward and does things like cold call in the SB when I open on the button.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with Q K
2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls

Flop: (4 SB) T 8 7 (2 players)
Hero...

I almost never check a flop heads up, but this has to be close. I'm thinking check/call and give up on the turn unimproved.
07-17-2008 , 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolution
This guy is pretty nitty. He's around 26/8/1 over a small sample. I don't have much more than that, other than he seems pretty straight forward and does things like cold call in the SB when I open on the button.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with Q K
2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls

Flop: (4 SB) T 8 7 (2 players)
Hero...

I almost never check a flop heads up, but this has to be close. I'm thinking check/call and give up on the turn unimproved.
I would not. Any big card/little card hands he has can fold. If he's nitty, 22-55 may fold. He doesn't even have to fold 20% of his range for betting to be correct. If he's straight forward and just calls the flop, the hand should be very easy to play from there.
07-17-2008 , 11:38 PM
Make the flop 874 and I'd say it's closer to a check, though I probably still bet.
07-18-2008 , 01:25 AM
I pretty much bet it every time against this guy. He is tight passive. He will fold enough to make it profitable and rarely take a shot at you.

If you are gonna c/c the give up on the turn, just bet.
07-18-2008 , 05:19 AM
I'd definitely check this flop back in position, but not OOP.
07-18-2008 , 05:38 AM
I bet 100% of the time.I´m pretty confident that small Ax:s fold and that it is a 0-50% chance that 22-55 will fold facing the threat of having to call 2 big bets to showdown.
If he is folding a worse hand that is fine also since you´re being OOP.
07-18-2008 , 10:13 AM
So, with all that being said, this is a decent spot to play back at a SB raiser if you miss in the BB. It's the same thing with A83 type flops. They are actually pretty good to bluff at because if the SB has something like QJo he's going to have a difficult time calling down.
07-18-2008 , 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolution
So, with all that being said, this is a decent spot to play back at a SB raiser if you miss in the BB. It's the same thing with A83 type flops. They are actually pretty good to bluff at because if the SB has something like QJo he's going to have a difficult time calling down.
this is not actually true for a tag or lagtag. It is true for this guy since he is tight-passive playing a 26/8 style, its going to be profitable for his to stab at all sorts of ****. But we don't play that style, so any opponent with a clue is never going to get away from Ax if the board bricks off because they will (correctly) assume that we have a lot of semi-bluffs in our range.

Just to clarify, I think that if a Lagtag is in the BB with K5/Q5/54/etc and gets this flop, it would be very horrible to start bluffing.
07-19-2008 , 05:23 AM
dont check this flop, easy/profitable cbet.
07-19-2008 , 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryptamean
this is not actually true for a tag or lagtag. It is true for this guy since he is tight-passive playing a 26/8 style, its going to be profitable for his to stab at all sorts of ****. But we don't play that style, so any opponent with a clue is never going to get away from Ax if the board bricks off because they will (correctly) assume that we have a lot of semi-bluffs in our range.

Just to clarify, I think that if a Lagtag is in the BB with K5/Q5/54/etc and gets this flop, it would be very horrible to start bluffing.
Maybe, but give him the hands like K5, Q5 and 54, which he will raise in the SB and now he has trouble calling. We wouldn't be targeting A high when we bluff a flop like that with air, we'd be targeting all of those other 1 card hands. I'm not sure if it's worth it on that board because so many of his missed hands will also be able to call here. Also, if you say that we should correctly semi-bluff this board, then it should also be close to correct to bluff with air as well. I actually don't semi-bluff these boards as much because of what you said. If you have a pair and a draw or better on this board then your raise is more for value than a semi-bluff.

Anyway, I've been working on this for a while now trying to figure out what boards are good for semi-bluffing and to what frequency you should semi-bluff. Do people think you should always semi-bluff boards like these with any draw?
07-19-2008 , 03:02 PM
I think if you feel like checking this flop you should also be occasionally be checking strong hands for balance. If the BB is an observant player and has played a lot of BvB with you, I would consider your history of raising PF OOP then cbetting. If you never check your strong hands I would continue to bet.

      
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