Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
AQS from cutoff-donk bet into AQS from cutoff-donk bet into

06-15-2008 , 09:55 AM
AQS-against two unknowns, you open raise in cutoff and unknown button and BB call.

Flop comes k92 rainbow

BB donk bets....what do you do? I usually call this getting 8-1....

I am reading a book, and they said to fold...that since there are not many draws...you have to assume BB or button has a pair, is this correct strategy or should you peel one?
06-15-2008 , 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topspinner
AQS-against two unknowns, you open raise in cutoff and unknown button and BB call.

Flop comes k92 rainbow

BB donk bets....what do you do? I usually call this getting 8-1....

I am reading a book, and they said to fold...that since there are not many draws...you have to assume BB or button has a pair, is this correct strategy or should you peel one?
On this particular flop with player behind you, I just fold. Hopefully the other guy will call so you can find out what that donk bet really means.
06-15-2008 , 11:12 AM
I'd say it's probably best to fold. You're less than an 8:1 chance to improve even if you assume a Q or an A would make you the best hand. But there's a decent chance your queen outs won't be good and may leave you stuck calling down with a worse hand. It also kinda sucks having another player to act behind you.

I'd maybe peel with a backdoor flush draw, but this is still probably incorrect.
06-15-2008 , 11:36 AM
I should have mentioned that flop did not hit one our suits.....

I do not understand how can you say that if both the Q and A (not saying they are) are good that you are less than 8 to 1 (47/6)? Also you have bd straight draw...which is worth something.

It just seems that folding to a donk bet on the flop is awfully weak tight.
06-15-2008 , 11:58 AM
First let's clarify your chances of making a pair on the turn. One response said it was 6/47 and not less than 8-1. Actually, a 6/47 chance is 6.8-1 because the odds are 41-6 against improving, not 47-6. Dividing 41 by 6 equals 6.8 against.

As far as taking a card, it's a very difficult situation. There are not quite 8 bets in the pot. Although you got dead money from the SB, you lose some on the rake, so it's closer to 7 bets. You are a 6.8-1 underdog to improve, so it is close. You make more than the 7 bets when you improve and win, but making one pair is certainly not sure to win. And if you hit your queen, you lose to JT expensively, or may lose to a straight made on the river. And you do have a player behind you. If you call and he raises, you're in a bad situation. Or if he has a big hand and just calls, you are going to be in big trouble if you hit your pair on the turn.

Even though it's very frustrating, I would fold to a bet on the flop.

Mynameisnobody


Quote:
Originally Posted by topspinner
AQS-against two unknowns, you open raise in cutoff and unknown button and BB call.

Flop comes k92 rainbow

BB donk bets....what do you do? I usually call this getting 8-1....

I am reading a book, and they said to fold...that since there are not many draws...you have to assume BB or button has a pair, is this correct strategy or should you peel one?
06-15-2008 , 12:13 PM
One thing I forget to mention. If either player has a King, you only have 3 outs on the turn, which is 14.7-1 against, assuming they don't have two pair. But two pair is a possibility also. Folding is correct.

Mynameisnobody


Quote:
Originally Posted by topspinner
AQS-against two unknowns, you open raise in cutoff and unknown button and BB call.

Flop comes k92 rainbow

BB donk bets....what do you do? I usually call this getting 8-1....

I am reading a book, and they said to fold...that since there are not many draws...you have to assume BB or button has a pair, is this correct strategy or should you peel one?
06-15-2008 , 01:21 PM
Odds are calculated by dividing outs (6) by unseen cards (47).
06-15-2008 , 10:08 PM
i pretty much always fold this

if you are going to play, i'd raise rather than call

because, if i'm playing, i'm assuming he has 9x, a draw, or bs
06-15-2008 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishInAPhoneBooth
Odds are calculated by dividing outs (6) by unseen cards (47).
Since your outs aren't all clean, they can't be counted as a full out each. Also, if you hit one of your outs, you still could be behind 2p or even a set. Button cold-callers love playing hands like KQ, K9, Q9 and A9 - hands you're way behind at this point. Backdoor flushes I usually give 1 or 1.5 outs, assuming you have a decent high flush card.

Miller discusses outs in some detail in his SSH book.

I fold this on the flop btw - you have no reads, no draws, and have an unknown behind. Against certain opponents I'll raise this to flush out the button, but as both are unknowns, it's an easy fold imo.

      
m