Hi, i'm new here, hope i can get the hand posted correctly.

i'm not sure about the preflop- and the river-play.

Valline in UTG is 28/15/1.3, maybe it's a standard PF raise with QJ in CO, but i just called because of players behind me, BTN is a very loose/passive, call pretty often my PF raise, SB is a loose/aggressive reg, it's unlikely that both of them would fold to my raise. maybe i should fold PF, but i think a raise is also not that correct. i just begin to play poker recently, i leared much, but i still could be completely wrong at many basic things. so feel free to tell me if that was a terrible play. my thought was my QJo is not that good for multi-way pot, and it will be multi-way even if i raise the PF. so i should fold or just call and take a shot.

and the river confused me too. is a value bet standard? if bet, b/c or b/f?

any comments are welcome!

Poker Stars $3/$6 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.333 SB) Hero is CO with J Q
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, Hero calls

Flop: (7 SB) 8 Q Q (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls

Turn: (5 BB) 2 (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG calls

River: (11 BB) 3 (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG raises, Hero folds, SB folds

Wow. Raise pf, raise flop, and call river in hopes of a fancy played trips. And yes, river is an easy peasy value bet.

pfr of course, but saying we called pf I think this flop is an excellent example of a place to not wait for the turn. UTG will often have a gs or an 8 here. If we wait, a tight player like UTG may fold the turn fearing a raise from us. Conversely a flop raise removes this possibility. He will almost always call the flop. Then the turn comes some blank. It checks to us. We bet. SB calls with a-high/PP or w/e. UTG then is faced with the perfect spot to make a loose call in a mid sized pot drawing dead or to 3-4 outs with rio.

wow. Terrible river fold, even though he prolly has Ax or lol 33. But pot is way too big to fold trips on the river here. I would go ahead and raise the flop most times, but waiting til the turn is fine. I prefer to ram and jam big hands.

Raise PF is good.
Raise flop or waiting til turn is a small difference IMO but both fine.

Folding the river for one more bet is god awful, I mean, what exactly is he attempting to represent here other than a backdoor flush draw that got there. Round these parts in limit, we don't fold trips to possible runner runner flushes.

thx for all the replies and the excellent explanation from Leader!

ok, raise the PF. i got it.

it that a kind of a beginner failure, that slow playing big hand way to often? i do try to analyse the board and figure out what other opponents gonna do on the turn before i decide to slow play or not. but i feel i didn't really get the sense of slowplaying. and my AF on turn is higher than on flop, lol

Raising the flop or turn is trivial compared to calling the river. The pot is huge and you have a strong hand and you made a heroic laydown. This is not the way to win in limit hold em. You HAVE to call this river.

@Ace_frehly: yeah, the river fold is awful, i don't do this often, but in that situation, i just think, we are over 95% behind, and since SB called my river bet, maybe he would call the raise with his over pair, so i could get the confirmation anyway.

you're right, calling the river here should be standard. if it was 2-way or the SB had folded to my river-bet, i would call this 100%. i just don't believe the villain can bluff into 2 people which both of them have put one bet there already. some random player or fish would do this...

Slowplaying multiway is usually not a good idea. I would probably call here only if UTG was very loose or very spazzy and if SB two barreled far to frequently.

SB's call with A8 is trivial. What hand are putting UTG on that you are 95% sure his range beats you? Calling for confirmation is not why I call here. Call because what if he has Q-10, Q-9s or any other combination of hands you beat here. Mabye he made a weird raise. Either way, I cannot fathom folding top trips here for one more bet. The SB you have smoked, so his call is irrelevant.

You are probably not worried about it because he did have you beat on the hand, but that is irrelevant from a future strategy point of view.

yeah, i'm totally agree with you about "calling for confirmation is not why we call here".

but QT/Q9 had a perfect spot to jam the pot on the turn. c/c the turn with Qx is just too weird..

anyway i agree with you. we should call here for one more bet.

With UTG calling the flop, I would go ahead and raise right there. He's likely to come along for an extra bet and you don't risk it being HU when you get your raise in.

On the river as played must be a call IMO.


Edit: Raise preflop!

since the guy is a 25-17, and he limped UTG


he can't have AQ or KQ,

he called the flop once and the turn twice, so he probably doesn't have 33


he probably peeled the flop with Ac 9c and hit the river.


on the river, you literally are behind his entire range, because he is going to have Ac xc every time


that said, raise PF, raise the flop.


flop call is lol bad

the river fold is not awful


what hands do you think a tag is going to have here when he check raises TWO people on the river.

this tag also KNOWS you have Qx, and still check raises you AND the PFR


your only hope is he lolslowplayed QT or Q9, but logically, he is going to have a flush here.

if you called, that's fine too, but folding the river is far from bad, and it's probably optimal