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3/6 HU Blinds vs TAG - Quick Question 3/6 HU Blinds vs TAG - Quick Question

01-11-2010 , 12:14 PM
Villain is solid/straightforward TAG. No immediate history.

Full Tilt Poker $3/$6 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is SB with 5 A
4 folds, Hero raises, BB calls

Flop: (4 SB) 8 Q K (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls

Turn: (3 BB) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls

I check the turn because I have a hand I want to showdown with and I don't want to get raised. Good turn check?

I call turn planning to fold any 9, T, and J river. Good plan?
01-11-2010 , 01:24 PM
I agree with your plan; c/c the turn and c/c the river unless it's a 9/T/J.
01-11-2010 , 03:33 PM
I would bet the turn, if you just wanted to showdown why did you bet the flop?
01-11-2010 , 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gates52
I would bet the turn, if you just wanted to showdown why did you bet the flop?
You bet the flop ‘cause we have nothing and we want a lot of the crap that called from the BB to fold. He only needs to fold one out of 4. That’s a pretty poor board for pairs < 88 and crappy Ax hands (some which might be better than ours). Also on the flop we are not particularly showdown bound. If BB calls the flop I think we are checking a lot of turns. But, once we pair up on the turn with this drawy board, we want to get to showdown as cheap as possible.

I like the plan.
01-12-2010 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwealert
You bet the flop ‘cause we have nothing and we want a lot of the crap that called from the BB to fold. He only needs to fold one out of 4. That’s a pretty poor board for pairs < 88 and crappy Ax hands (some which might be better than ours). Also on the flop we are not particularly showdown bound. If BB calls the flop I think we are checking a lot of turns. But, once we pair up on the turn with this drawy board, we want to get to showdown as cheap as possible.

I like the plan.
Do you really think your going to get worse hands to fold by betting on the flop? It's a blind battle so any pair is likely to call.

My argument is not to check the the flop, but my argument that if we bet the flop we should be betting this turn since our hand did improve.
01-12-2010 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gates52
Do you really think your going to get worse hands to fold by betting on the flop?
I don't get it. There are all kinds of worse hands (and more importantly, a few potentially better ones), that might fold this flop. You think any two is an auto-peel here for bb (67,94s, etc.)?

Quote:
My argument is not to check the the flop, but my argument that if we bet the flop we should be betting this turn since our hand did improve.
It's a defensive check and although a thinking bb would probably realize this, it still doesn't make checking a bad play. You can induce bets from worse hands, while avoiding getting raised off a best one. While I don't hate a bet as you advise, I definitely don't mind a call here either. It's player dependent. -IMO
01-13-2010 , 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat

It's a defensive check and although a thinking bb would probably realize this, it still doesn't make checking a bad play. You can induce bets from worse hands, while avoiding getting raised off a best one.
Even a good TAG will bet here with worse hands some of the time. When hero checks, villain knows it means hero is either c/c'ing or c/f'ing.

(Almost never is it a screwplay)

Therefore villain is getting attractive odds to bet on the chance that hero is c/f'ing. Say the board was 6522 or something. If hero checks a good TAG will probably realise that hero is inducing, and so should check behind alot of hands.

But on this board hero could def. be c/f'ing. It's a reasonable play by hero to raise in sb with J7s or w/e, bet flop and c/f turn.

Additionally, the problem with betting out on the turn is that it puts you in a tough spot if you get raised.
01-13-2010 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildances

Additionally, the problem with betting out on the turn is that it puts you in a tough spot if you get raised.
If we get raised wouldn't it be an easy fold? What kind of hands that we beat would raise us here.
01-14-2010 , 04:48 AM
check/call is fine you guys need to balance your range. This is the type of flop that a decent player would float, knowing that you probably won't second barrel this board once you call with out a hand. just balance it w check/raise medium hands but not hands u can bet/3bet and you will be fine. A bet/fold is fine if you think villain never float this kind of flop without a made hands or pure bluff/semi bluff turn.
01-14-2010 , 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gates52
If we get raised wouldn't it be an easy fold? What kind of hands that we beat would raise us here.
if this is a tough player his raising range on turn can be 9cTc, AcTc , JTc (usually he would 3 bet this pre but he can get tricky) 67s that peels for back door flush and semmi bluff turn (am i over doing this?).

also when he raise if we bet we have some outs to win this, so do u really b/f turn here?

and to OP good play and good plan.
01-14-2010 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by merryber
if this is a tough player his raising range on turn can be 9cTc, AcTc , JTc (usually he would 3 bet this pre but he can get tricky) 67s that peels for back door flush and semmi bluff turn (am i over doing this?).

also when he raise if we bet we have some outs to win this, so do u really b/f turn here?

and to OP good play and good plan.
We would only be getting 6:1 to call a turn raise, what would we do then?
01-14-2010 , 09:09 AM
The problem with betting the turn all the time is that range is unbalanced as Juan said. We can't have a pair or better all the time. Sometimes we have to checkfold the turn and if we're checkfolding the turn then we also need checkcall the turn. Otherwise villain will just peel the flop all the time and bet his entire range on the turn if we check.
01-14-2010 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HelaRavenousWombat
The problem with betting the turn all the time is that range is unbalanced as Juan said. We can't have a pair or better all the time. Sometimes we have to checkfold the turn and if we're checkfolding the turn then we also need checkcall the turn. Otherwise villain will just peel the flop all the time and bet his entire range on the turn if we check.
this.
btw - its funny that u posted the hand and have all the good answers, more power 2u!

      
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