You've brought up this point before and I don't know what you are talking about. Have you seen the video and the commentary on the timing by NIST? The whole building is falling, not just the outer wall. The roof line goes down at free fall, not just the outer wall.

My guess is you are referring to some language in the NIST report or FAQ. That language does make a reference to the outer wall but only to explain where the camera was pointing in the particular video they used to measure the fall. They are not saying, or even implying, in any way, that only the outer wall is falling. Clearly, the entire building, from the roof line down, is falling.

This is such a simple point that I think it's an opportunity to square conflicting views.

So if .1% of Americans gave to disaster fund X you would conclude most Americans don't care at all or are against giving to X? What if donating meant possibly being put on a blacklist? How do you think this would impact donations?

You are treating the petition like a poll. If you have an actual survey of building professionals on their opinion I would be very interested in that. Until then, you can't honestly say you know the collective mind of that group one way or the other.

How technical do you want to be? No, the buildings weren't falling through a vacuum in a perfectly controlled experiment. They all fell at approximately free fall. More importantly they all fell at a pace and symmetry and to a completeness only ever before seen and theoretically plausible under a controlled demolition.

It's true they didn't collapse entirely into their own footprint, at least not the TTs. But that doesn't help your case. There were massive high speed ejections from the towers. Collections of bone fragments of first responders were found two football fields away.

You asked earlier why you should care to compare the TT collapse with buildings compromised in earthquakes. Know your supposed argument. You're supposed to be arguing for gravitational collapse and that is the (supposed) similarity for basis for comparison. When gravitational pancaking does occur, as in an earthquake, you find whole bodies and other objects compressed to varying degrees but more or less recognizable. The pulverization seen in both TTs was simply...you should listen to the cleanup workers talk about it.

Not even the ones which blew people's skin off? Do you know something nobody on either side knows? because even the official story had to make a rare concession to reality and acknowledge high energy explosions- the evidence was to overwhelming to deny. The difference is the gov. story is that the explosions were due to jet fuel running down an elevator shafts and exploding. I could give some convincing points as to why this isn't likely, but why don't we see if you can even get your story straight first.

Again, this is patently false. In one instance, again, the official reports acknowledge melted steel. I've been over this 10 times ITT. There was what was described as a "severe high temperature corrosive attack" in which steel was melted.

In addition, there was what can only be molten steel running out of the side of the building minutes before collapse. Also, there were multiple reports of and plenty of physical evidence of molten steel inside the (completely anomalous and officially unexplained) severe high temperature heat blooms observed at each collapse site.

Is it easy to crush every single piece of metal furniture into it's own unique dadaist interpretation, completely unrecognizable? Is it easy to eject bodies parts hundreds of yards? or implant giant beams sideways into nearby buildings? But please, tell me more about pancake mix.

I believe you somewhat here, because you don't even know what the government is saying. You know the cliff notes of what they want you to think though, you think it, and the facts have absolutely nothing to do with that.

Wow. Much expert. Very geopolitics.

Based on your 1.), you have to wonder: if Russia and China could gain that much by exposing the conspiracy, why dont they put a few teams on the case? If random morons who have seen a few youtube videos can use their newly acquired scientific expertise to conclude that the collapse was caused by thermi(a?)te, it should be easy for Russian and Chinese engineers to do the same. And yet, no expert form Russia or China or any other country has ever published an article in an engineering journal about the thermite-induced collapse of the WTC. Many engineers from many different countries have written about fire-induced collapse, though.

Find me a cause that Americans care about that only gets donations from 0.1% of the population.

The rest of your posts have been gone over time and again with you. You're back to writing blatant lies that we know you know are lies (like the fact that the NIST timing is for a single point on the wall and that it states the interior of the building starts collapsing well before that point).

And I thought it was well known that only a handful got flight training, you know, the ones they had fly the planes....

Some of them are still alive? You would think a govt capable of pulling off such a huge conspiracy would have no trouble or scruples with finishing off a few more people to make sure this all stays under wraps.

Holy **** you guys are ******ed.

This has got to be in the top 10 most hilarious things a troofer can say. Like how amazed are they that thousands of planes are hitting short sections of a narrow runway every single day.

Well jj, you probably believe the official story that the Navy has planes routinely landing on boats.

Yep why wouldn't a newly trained pilot be able to take over a hijacked plane and descend perfectly at high speed so the plane was a couple of feet above the ground to hit the Pentagon. And the same government, wants you to believe that one of the terrorists' passport was randomly found on the street near ground zero in the tonnes of rubble, after being exposed to fires hot enough to bring down three buildings. No meaningful enquiry, no questions encouraged. Yep, not suspicious at all.

Have you considered googling some of the things your youtubes tell you, just in case they were debunked thousands of times already?

I don't know why we think he descended perfectly, but once again - being a couple of feet above the ground coming into the Pentagon is no different than being a couple of feet off the ground before touching down on a runway.


This one I can at least understand your skepticism. But a probably little known fact is that paper survives massive plane crashes more often than you would think. For example good bye notes have been found around multiple plane crashes - the reason being that the crash generates a force strong enough to eject the light paper outside of the area being burned. Much of the damage from a plane crash also involves the massive g forces experienced at the time of impact - something that obviously wouldn't effect paper.

I was hoping for an Alice's Restaurant type of explanation for the passport: "Yes sir officer Obie, I cannot lie, I put that passport under those tonnes of rubble."

Yep. I am aware of the counter arguments, the official line. It comes down to what you believe at the end of the day. There are plausible and not so plausible explanations on both sides. As I have said repeatedly, I didn't come here to try and convince anyone about who is responsible for 9/11. There were 420 pages of discussion here before I started, I assumed it had been discussed at length, and from the poll results it was about 50/50. I was more interested in what people think the consequences would be if it was (perhaps hypothetically) discovered it was a false flag.

Like JJ says, what the **** do you think landing is besides descending at a high rate of speed and hitting a small target. Do newly trained pilots not get to ****ing land? God damn you're a stupid cock. Claiming that some of the hijackers are still alive? Stupid ****ing moron

Is anyone amazed? Are all of the pilots who raise objections to the official account of the flights also so amazed?

Or maybe everyone acknowledges that a commercial passenger plane flying at max speed isn't quite as nimble as the fighter jets engineered to land on aircraft carriers and piloted by elite pilots who are thoroughly trained to do that specific task.

It's quite hilarious that this thread is about who did 9/11 and I was the first person to mention MITRE corp. It's literally impossible that they didn't have some involvement in the event before and after.

You seem to be inferring that the wall of WTC 7 falls independently of the rest of the building because of the way NIST conveys that the viewpoint they used was pointing at that wall. Can you show me where you get this whole "it was just the the outer wall" thing? And also explain why you retreat into semantics games if you are so obviously right?

We all see that the core was attacked first. Pointing that out doesn't help your case because that's a hallmark of demolition. Your tying to use that to nit up the discussion about the speed of collapse is an obvious derail tactic. A core attack was also observed on the north tower, as it is clear that the radio spire dips in before the rest of the top starts going down.

You are hilarious. I hope the rest of your 34000+ posts contain at least some contribution to a discussion, otherwise you are wasting soooo much time and energy. So far 100% of the ones I have seen don't so not hopeful.

I literally could not care less

I am glad you can at least see why there would be skepticism. You don't have to try and debunk all the non official explanations you know. You could take the view that truther explanations and questions (as you call them, or just challenges to the official line, as I would call them), are actually quite healthy. Democratic principles dictate that Government is actually elected, presented with powers, to work for us, the people you know. There is a theory out there that democratic governments work best when we the people challenge them and hold them to account.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html

I mean, this is a full 100 or so pilots (including a number of private pilots)!!! It's probably even smaller than the 0.1% of 'engineers' and 'architects'. I'm sure they're all heroes risking their jobs as well.

Yes, there are kooks in every profession.

And once again, you realize that it doesn't take an elite pilot to land a plane on a narrow runway, right? Some might even say that that skill is part of the definition of pilot.

You aren't being skeptical, you are bring delusional. There is a difference. The skeptic will look at an official story, investigate the claims they find troubling, and use scientific evidence to come to a conclusion on whether the official story is correct or not. The delusional will look at an official story, find something fishy about it, and go to youtube to find the first piece of information that (in their mind) invalidates the official story and says "I knew it! I'm such a special ****ing snowflake! All these idiots who believe the official story are such boot lickers."

When JJ puts forth the fact that the passport may have survived because there are many official and scientific examples of paper surviving plane crashes due to them being light enough to be thrown from the wreckage before burning, and you handwave it away, that isn't you being skeptical. It's you being delusional

This is not a serious discussion and it won't likely ever progress past a very low level. For example, the faithers won't even acknowledge that there was foreknowledge of the attacks which was traded on in the financial markets. There are numerous peer reviewed papers claiming there was massive, global trading on foreknowledge, but they will neither acknowledge the possibility or debate the points made in these papers. Most of them are here to voice vapid denials and make false, trollish, sweeping statements, not to actually engage.

Therefore, if you are here to make progress or forge common ground you are going to be disappointed. But that doesn't mean there is no fun to be had. The game, as I see it, is to see what lengths they will go to in order to maintain. Some highlights so far include JJ comparing NIST models (the inputs of which are not divulged) to Einstein's equations in their validity; several faithers declaring they don't care who did 9/11; fly saying Wolfowitz, an acknowledge genius, is an idiot and that explains his actions; several people claiming the NIST report as peer reviewed when the authors will not divulge the inputs into their lol models; repeated likening of the fall of the TTs to weak or brittle material being crushed by something much heavier and more dense, the height of this being JJ constructing a hypothetical in which something as big as the earth itself comes into frame to crush the towers (maybe the best part of this was JJ completely negating the gravity of this object in his "teaching").

So yeah, it's lots of fun but it's low level.

It looks like Deuces is considering a flat-earther (also a dinosaur truther) his peer.

I have no objection.

Financial stuff was discussed and debunked Deuces.

I remember you also provided a Wolfowitz "funny" and got bigot banned for it IIRC.