My position is not that gender roles are nonexistent, but that they are most correct at the individual rather than general or social level. I also believe that body gender and psychological gender are only related by how much an individual believes they are.

I actually dislike the term gender roles and prefer the term gender qualities. What a person does to define their gender is less important than what a person believes.

.

Unless I am completely misunderstanding you, that seems backwards. The statement "men are typically more physically aggressive than women" can't be more true at the individual level than at the group level. At the individual level, it would make no sense to check whether you have a penis to determine whether you are aggressive or not.

That seems like you have the causal direction backwards, unless I am misunderstanding. I believe I am a straight man because I feel like I am. My brother believes he is a gay man because he feels like he is. A mutual friend of ours believes that he is a gay woman because he likes woman and feels like having a penis just isn't right for him. One of my favorite people is a woman who could easily kick my ass if she wanted to. My very best friend is a feminist who likes being tied up and whipped.

I am quite certain that my penis doesn't make me a straight man and that nothing resembling a belief system can explain the above people.

I believe it is all about emotions, not beliefs.

That was a good example. Thanks.

Oh?

I was called out by 5five to give my opinions about this:


Originally Posted by masque de Z
pvn i already described my disapproval of this post and the one before that caused it. I wouldn't refer to people that way because i do know that women are complex enough to be both intelligent beyond limits (see a recent fields medal first woman winner) but also more emotional and sensitive and with higher empathy than men which sometimes is excessive for men to experience but is necessary in order to have the amazing role of a mom and a woman that cares for her family, and keeps men from being completely aggressive.

Didn't want to litter the BruceZ thread and saw this post quoted here, so here it goes.

a) Are you asking me, because I am a woman? I can't answer you then. If you want my own personal opinion, I'll try.

b) Personally I think there are few biological (edit: but important) differences between men and women and a lot of the differences one can observe are the consequence of different incentives they face during their whole life.

c) My opinion is just a belief. I tried to follow the scientific literature on the men/women thing for some time, but we just still know so little, because it is actually quite hard to come up with good scientific studies about this. Most of the studies are so bad, it makes you puke. But I lost interest in this and especially in the discussion of amateurs about this some time ago. Because

d) in the end different incentives are routed in biology too because everything is (well physics in the end). So you could call me a hardcore materialist. I am more interested in challenging my materialism per se.

e) So that masque thinks, that women are complex enough to be both super intelligent, well of course he does. Every normal being does.

f) That he talks about women being more emotional and empathetic: I don't know, whether this is true, see c). I know, that the term "emotional" is loaded for many feminists, it isn't for me and especially not when coming from him. I know, he means it as a compliment. I am not really sure, why he thinks he has to make it though. But he was answering to a stupid post by pvn after all.


g) Yes being a mom and a woman is amazing. Not that I exactly know how it is to be a mom.

h) That women keep men from being too aggressive is a pretty common view. I am not sure, whether it is true or not because see c). I have no problem with it being true or vice versa.

Swiss, why are you all of a sudden such an active member of this community? You've apparently been signed up since 2007. What life event occurred to bring you back to prominence here at 2+2 PUC?

I am sure it must be some conspiracy.

Edit: And just realized, that a) sounds like I am not a woman. What I meant is, I am not a representative of other women's opinion.

Also wonder why you never answer any questions directly

No, for real, what brought you back from such an extended hiatus...and why PUC of all the sub-forums?

I am not? You did not answer me in the other thread. I am way too lenient in letting people actually change the subject and not going through with an argument. And then I try to answer to the new subject without ever having a definitive answer.

Actually, it's the other way. That's what you do to other people for the most part.

By the way, "I'll stop when he stops" is just terrible. It's like saying you refuse to be the bigger/better man in a conflict. Nice position you got there.

In your blind fury, you got the wrong thread, boss

Is every poster being asked that? I am going to answer, but then tell me why this is relevant at all.

I first started posting in PU after I got thrown out of my political party for being too radical and my way to being in parliament was stopped. There were several reasons, the most important was me not supporting the compulsory service for men. I just would not do it, no compromise possible. But to be honest, it was long overdue. So I lacked political discussion and came to twoplustwo because I had been lurking for some time and started posting after some time. There was only Pol A then.

Then life happened, I got ill, got a new job and had a bad conscience for actually letting missiledog hanging in the middle of the conversation after he had invested so much time in me.

After all was resolved, I started posting again. Why not in Pol A but PU? In Pol A the threads were longer, I did not want to contribute something that had already been said and the threads often consider US politics, which I often know too little about or doesn't interest me.

I am on a semi sabbatical now, that gives me more time to post. I don't know any poster IRL.

See it is all completely harmless.

Really? I am sorry. I just explained how badly I felt about missiledog. I try to be better, I swear.

Hey look, you came up with a reasonable answer in less than a week and I bet people don't give you crap for it.

Yes. Men are typically also not so good at lactating and finding Waldo.

I was actually genuinely interested, and now I'm curious about more details, but I'll respect your privacy and stop the inquisition.

:-)

I don't know, whether I buy this answer. You seem to pretty much detest me. Why should you be genuinely interested in my life?

Can you yodel like Heidi? A lot of American country singers stole the yodeling from y'all.

You have pretty detestable positions on most anything you've discussed ITF that I've come across, but that doesn't necessarily make you a terrible person.

But yeah, taking a 7 year hiatus then returning with such a splash almost has to involve an interesting story...and it did. I was interested about what it might involve.

I was asking you to substantiate this claim, not put it next to an objectively true statement and call them a set.

You undervalue the word friend in boy friend. You are just equating it with her going out and getting laid. This woman needs someone that cares for her and will listen to her, try to understand her and support her. She needs some type of refuge, an emotionally safe place between her and her ****ass children. What could possibly more important than her having a strong loving relationship with a man? I know to you this is sexist, but you being a woman should realize this. She is a middle aged woman, you are not, I am a middle aged man. I know how important that relationship is and the hole it leaves if you don't have it.

I feel bad for gobbos mom here but I fear to you she is just an object.