She was called a holocaust denier for one and only one simple reason: She categorically stated that all the academic literature on the holocaust was "unscientific" and "false" (both her words). The definition of a holocaust denier starts with "Holocaust denial is the act of denying established facts concerning the genocide of Jews in the Holocaust during World War II."

She flat out claimed that we can't trust the consensus picture produced by academics (she even called them "dangerous", again her word) regarding one of the most studied events in human history.

Now, I get that she interspersed plenty of caveats. And I don't even disagree with the notion that skepticism has some value. But when you walk into a politics arena and make claims like she did (which of course, she later took them back as sloppy wording and all, again), then the reaction is hardly obscene, even if it was too strong (which I would in fact agree!). Casting blanket mistrust (with no real evidence to support this mistrust other than "don't believe anything you read!") of the holocaust is STEP ONE in the holocaust denial playbook, which even you should agree. That doesn't mean everyone who makes such sloppy statements is a denier, of course.

Again, this is Politics Unchained. If you think walking in here to spout talking points like "all academia is wrong on the holocaust" is going to get a light treatment, then you really are out of your element. Perhaps you should go someplace else if your sensibilities have been so shocked. You and her can discuss how academia is all wrong on the holocaust in SMP to your hearts' content, for example. (And we can make fun of you here for it.)

There was a lot more that you have chosen to ignore.

The only thing I'm slightly shocked about is that people like you who are clearly decent can have got so caught up in an 'us vs them' paradigm that you have reached the point of endorsing abuse you would normally be uneasy about at least.

Gotta protect dat hate speech from abuse, amirite?

No we have to speak against hate speech. That you have lost site of that is the slightly shocking thing.

Swissmiss doesn't appear to be a bigot, nor has she posted any hate speech that I'm aware of.

Ctyri is right that she seems to be entirely unprepared for the audience to which she's posting, made a bunch of pretty bad posts, and that the whole pearl clutching thing about "abuse" in unchained is silly, but still. You seem to be doing a remarkably poor job at posting yourself, especially on a subject where it's so easy to get it right.

Have you ever thought maybe its because I would NOT normally be uneasy about this abuse?

Again, the "abuse" here is this: An anonymous poster was repeatedly called a holocaust denier after her provocative statements impugning the reliability of the body of holocaust-related research. This discussion occurred on the least moderated of 102 subforums on a poker-based internet message board.

I know, it's shocking that I can tolerate this form of blatant abuse. (Actually, I haven't really "tolerated" it as much as ignored it until now. And I certainly have never endorsed it as you say. In fact, the very post you just quoted included my statement that I agreed that calling her a denier was too strong. Can I now claim you have abused me?)

Maybe you should recalibrate your own "us vs. them" paradigm.

Of course I have considered that.

If a random poster called a Jew posting about family she had lost in the holocaust a holocaust denier then I don't think you would endorse it. Especially when it had been discussed as it had been with her, and the accusation was based on a 'tell'.

I may have misjudged you.

Continuing to abuse me by yet again insinuating I endorsed shaming of Jews whose family have been affected by the holocaust! Even when I explained that I never endorsed such a thing!

Abuse! Abuse!

Spanktehbadwookie, help!!!!!

Personal attacks abounding!

only jjshabado can help you now

Abuse is allowed. Its not hate speech level so it's fine in PU imo

But I apologise. I hadn't read your post fully. My mistake.

Edit: I could point out that by wookie standards you are still guilty of something heinous but as I think its a nonsense standard I won't.

No, not moderator help, I meant moral support! I have been wronged and want want to be on the "them" team.. or is it the "us" side? I forget.

Anyway...

OK, then, apology accepted I guess. (Of course, you know I was joking about your abuse of me, I hope.)

Txs. Sorry I'm posting from a crappy phone which exacerbates my usual incompetence

No worries. My posts are plenty crappy on a 17" laptop.

Moving on...

How about that kid dude? Now there's a bad poster.

Someone conceding they are wrong, apologizing, and apology being accepted is notable around here where so many people have never been wrong about anything.

Can we all agree on this and all be friends?

I said a zillion times that I squirm about the posts I made. Ok, in academia this would be not enough but I am trying to correct it post by post, that should somewhat count as academic rigour? And that should somewhat count against those still calling me a denier. Edit: And it is some sort of abuse if they go on.

Ctyri: Yes you were right for calling me out in the beginning. You are one of the best posters here and I apologize especially to you. Your posts are one of the reasons I realized why I have to put in more effort. But could you let it rest now?

Have we figured out what that guy had for breakfast yet?

swissmiss, yes of course, I shall let it rest and sorry for dredging the muck.

Lol, thank you so much chez. You don't even know how much I learned from you. And this will be my last post flattering anybody. (I am not flattering, it is true).

Deleted the rest because I'd rather have a love festival and it was worded badly AGAIN.

Thank you and no problem. Looking forward to debating you.

Was there a mating call of horse****ers itt?

Why do you ask, you are here because you heard it.

Edit: Mentioning that. Wookie could we get rid of this one? I am not talking about killing PaulD.

Nice derp there.

It should be "Why do you ask? You are here because you heard it."

I know you are full of **** when it comes to academia. But even non-native speakers who have used English for a few years don't tard up the language that badly.

So what's your next move, swissderp? Ebola numbers are inflated in the African continent? Perhaps the Illuminati is using Ebola to keep people in chains? It's funny how much of a fraud you are.

Swiss sucks, don't get me wrong, but knocking her English skills is pretty low and terrible.

How's your Swedish, Paul?

Can you show your work on this?

Suggested new undertitle for chez: The Derp Knight

Probably just as good as Swissmiss'.