Other than Wil, Deuces, Proph, Johnny, NoQuarter and OMG Chez, Who are the Bad P/PU Posters? - Page 208 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

The type of risk pooling that DB plans impose doesn't even really help you. Max will say of course it does but he's conflating two different types of risk.
.

Clearly explain the 2 different types of risks I'm conflating with quotes of me doing it.

And you are now again going back to full ****** and denying the fact that you can save less money per person with similar chances of outliving funds if you pool? Are u still claiming to understand the definition of standard deviation?

09-05-2013 , 09:35 PM

#5177

SenorKeeed

mew mew mew

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37,478

Will you accept Sklansky as a judge?

09-05-2013 , 09:38 PM

#5178

dessin d'enfant

Guest

Posts: n/a

I already said I would. I don't think he'll do it if money is involved though. I'll do it for 1k or less/under titles with 5 or so randoms from this thread as judges. I bet a lot of people will volunteer if we agree never to post about pensions again itt.

Last edited by dessin d'enfant; 09-05-2013 at 09:45 PM.

09-05-2013 , 09:44 PM

#5179

Trolly McTrollson

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Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,933

popcorn.gif

09-05-2013 , 09:46 PM

#5180

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

Zimmerman got so fat even his fat wife can't be married to him any longer.

09-05-2013 , 09:50 PM

#5181

Paul D

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Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 14,689

Shellie Zimmerman is sporting two chins..

09-05-2013 , 09:55 PM

#5182

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

That's why it's funny.

09-05-2013 , 09:57 PM

#5183

Nichlemn

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 9,478

The prop will never happen because you disagree on what you're disagreeing about.

09-05-2013 , 10:00 PM

#5184

dessin d'enfant

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Posts: n/a

Just core dump all our posts and ask who understands what is going on and who doesn't. I'll pay the judges for their time if we bet money.

09-05-2013 , 10:02 PM

#5185

AlexM

ignored

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,655

I have a coin. I can judge.

09-05-2013 , 10:10 PM

#5186

dessin d'enfant

Guest

Posts: n/a

Gonna go ahead and save some time. Alexm and lirva are black balled from judging.

09-05-2013 , 10:11 PM

#5187

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

I think I'm the only one qualified to judge anything relating to pensions.

09-05-2013 , 10:12 PM

#5188

Trolly McTrollson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nichlemn

The prop will never happen because you disagree on what you're disagreeing about.

The question does need to be defined.

"Does the average worker benefit more from the typical pension plan or from a typical annuity?"

A good starting point?

09-05-2013 , 10:18 PM

#5189

Nichlemn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

The question does need to be defined.

"Does the average worker benefit more from the typical pension plan or from a typical annuity?"

A good starting point?

I think pvn is arguing that workers often benefit more from DB plans, but that's not due to an inherent advantage of DB plans, it's that for whatever reason the employees who get DB plans get bigger total compensation packages.

09-05-2013 , 10:19 PM

#5190

pvn

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Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by dessin d'enfant

Clearly explain the 2 different types of risks I'm conflating with quotes of me doing it.

Conflating was the wrong word, you're just selectively ignoring the catastrophic loss risk, which is real, as evidenced by the public pension crises in Detroit et al and ignoring the fact that the outliving the money risk isn't uniquely solved by DB plans.

Quote:

And you are now again going back to full ****** and denying the fact that you can save less money per person with similar chances of outliving funds if you pool?

LOL, I never denied this, I explicitly pointed out that your argument that you can't pool in a DC plan is wrong.

Quote:

Are u still claiming to understand the definition of standard deviation?

yes.

09-05-2013 , 10:22 PM

#5191

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

The question does need to be defined.

"Does the average worker benefit more from the typical pension plan or from a typical annuity?"

A good starting point?

Not really since a lot of the benefit is subjective. A lot of people might value the flexibility a DC plan offers.

09-05-2013 , 10:24 PM

#5192

Trolly McTrollson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

Not really since a lot of the benefit is subjective. A lot of people might value the flexibility a DC plan offers.

Sure, that's where the judge comes in. It all basically boils down to EV and variance, the judge can consider that some people might trade EV for less variance to a reasonable degree.

09-05-2013 , 10:30 PM

#5193

Nichlemn

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Maybe some people might like DB plans and some people might like DC plans, and we're right back at "Is Coke or Pepsi better?"

09-05-2013 , 10:30 PM

#5194

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Sure, that's where the judge comes in. It all basically boils down to EV and variance, the judge can consider that some people might trade EV for less variance to a reasonable degree.

That's not the trade off I'm talking about. DC participants can trade money now for money later or vice versa with more ease that DB participants.

There are already ways to trade EV/variance inside a DC plan, you don't have to pick one type of plan or the other to manage that preference.

09-05-2013 , 10:35 PM

#5195

Trolly McTrollson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nichlemn

Maybe some people might like DB plans and some people might like DC plans, and we're right back at "Is Coke or Pepsi better?"

Nonsense. People only like DB/DC because they think they're better retirement plans. No one is going to pick DB if he thinks it's a worse plan put he "just likes DC".

09-05-2013 , 10:36 PM

#5196

Paul D

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nichlemn

Maybe some people might like DB plans and some people might like DC plans, and we're right back at "Is Coke or Pepsi better?"

No. You can quantify DB and DC plans.

My Financial Markets, Banking and Monetary Policy professor who worked for the Fed said DCs are the way to go because of sustainability issues with DBs. I would like to see Max and him debate the topic...

09-05-2013 , 10:37 PM

#5197

Trolly McTrollson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

OK. EV, variance and flexibility are things the judge can consider. A reasonable judge can decide how much the average worker desires flexibility.

09-05-2013 , 10:38 PM

#5198

Trolly McTrollson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul D

"Better" as in better for the individual worker or better for society overall?

09-05-2013 , 10:41 PM

#5199

Paul D

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Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 14,689

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

"Better" as in better for the individual worker or better for society overall?

I assume he was talking about better for society.

09-05-2013 , 10:47 PM

#5200

spanktehbadwookie

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Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

lol penisons.

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