No society in history has run without a system of government. What exactly do you think makes you so special?

I never said the government has a right to my property before me. There yoy go putting those words I didn't say into my mouth

That's exactly what you're doing when you say people attempting to keep their own property are the thieves.

No, I'm saying that people who decline to pay for public services and goods are not subject to use said goods and services. If you wanna play you gotta pay. In what world Is that theft, but using public goods and services that you don't contribute a dime to isnt? You got a ****ed up view of what theft is.

How does me paying my taxes and sending my children to public school and driving them there on the roads my taxes help to pay for = government committing theft, and you not contributing, sending your kids to public school and driving on the roads that MY tax dollars help to pay for and you didn't contribute jack to = you not committing theft?

**** dem po' people, right? They shouldn't have access to public -- taxpayers' -- land!

The theft occurs when you are coerced to pay against your will for these things you may or may not benefit from.

FWIW, it's a matter of enforcement. How else are you going to keep out all of those "thieves" -- daring to breath your fresh air -- other than institute checkpoints, roaming searches, and other Nazi-esque policies? Judging from your authoritarian, gun-grabbing views in the other thread, you would have no problem with this.

You assume all of these irreplaceable facilities like schools and roads exist because of -- instead of despite -- government, as if it's a God that fixes anything and everything wrong with society's ills. It would be laughable, if you weren't seated happily among the majority; then, it becomes sickening.

Once again, nope, no one here has said that and lol at you feigning concern for the poor when your whole philosophy is a temper tantrum against even modest redistribution.

I would like to decline paying for any military spending please. Do I have your support Proph?

.

You ask a straightforward question out of the blue for a position which I should obviously support.

You scare me.

I take it a step further, though. You shouldn't have to pay for any of it, until you need it.

Governments usually hire private contractors to do their work for them anyway. (Privatizing profits and subsidizing losses, while stifling competition in the process.)

Theft is okay, as long as it's only a little bit.

Right. Like using the roads and schools I pay for without contributing anything yourself...

You pay for. lol! We should be grateful. You're just... you're a wonderful authoritarian.

I'm sure your couple of dollars at the pump are appreciated, citizen!

How do you know what I do or do not contribute? Can I not begrudgingly contribute yet belittle the extortion around me? Or is the 1st amendment gone now, too? You were certainly working hard against the 2nd in the other thread! (I just assumed you'd fail.)

What does the 1st amendment have to do with us calling your ideas idiotic?

Taxation is theft is an idiotic premise. Boom roasted.

It's dwarfed in idiocy by the false axiom that theft is legitimate, though.

Taxation is extortion.

You and massah3004 seem to think that people should have to pay taxes to participate on public land, so you may think the Bill of Rights only applies to taxpayers, as well.

Yes, the couple of dollars that I and all the other taxpayers COLLECTIVELY contribute helps keep roads and infrastructure running. This helps me and the taxpayers get to their jobs in order to earn money, which in turn allows us to buy houses and additional stuff. We then pay taxes on the land our property is on, as it is serviced by other governmental services.

Ugh, jesus why the **** am I explaining taxes to you. Read a ****ing book. We are a society. The common good means something to us, it helps make things work properly. If you have no interest in the common good or using the services and goods that we collectively contribute to, feel free to not be a part of the collective. I mean, it's gonna be hard to find a place that doesn't require you to be part of the collective, as every successful civilization that has ever existed relies on being a part of the collective, but feel free to find a patch of land and try. If you can get along so well without the "theft" of the government, I'd be really excited to see it.

Nope. We also didn't say people have to pay taxes to participate on public land or that poor people don't have rights to public land no matter how many times you repeat that falsehood.

Glad to see you admitted you were wrong about the 1st amendment being an issue. You are certainly protected by the Bill of Rights if you are evading taxes just like any other criminal or scumbag.

Just keep paying taxes wouldn't want to see you end up in a cage

Do you even realize that with property taxes, people really don't actually own property anymore? You're simply a renter, until you refuse, forget, or are unable to pay your yearly fief, in which case you lose "your" property.

People wouldn't contribute voluntarily without taxation as their needs change? Why does this supposedly beneficial extortion require force?

Do you proclaim that you, or others, know better than consumers about their needs?

Of course, you do! You're an authoritarian!

Again, you equate tax evasion to thievery, criminality, and general scumbaggery.

I'll never understand it.

(ALMIGHTY GUBBERMEANT!?!?!!11!1LOL!)

Yeah, that will about do. I'm right and you aren't here. None of your points make a lick of sense. Taxation is neccesary to help the government run and provide the people with infrastructure. There is no theft involve, and dodging taxes that other people pay and then using the services those people pay for is the only theft occuring and would rightly be considered a crime.

I declare myself the winner.

You still assume government is necessary, making yourself the loser.

Of course you would declare yourself the victor, in your blissfully ignorant state.

I hope you don't learn the hardway, pal!

Because people are nowhere NEAR generous enough, and generosity ebbs even more during tough economic times. This can be understood with even the most superficial of glances back at relevant history, including that of charitable giving trends during the past 10-20 years, or how the private sector utterly failed during the Great Depression. s*** son! The modern welfare state was the remedy to the sickness that the private sector had no cure for!

Note, though, that this was when Proph bowed out of our last conversation, so feel free to ignore this if you're not yet ready to take a bow.

omg dudeimbetter i swear you could spread aids with ur posts

try printing one of your post and rub it on somebody's penis I bet you anything the guy will get aids

I use to drive the gravel roads of central Minnesota. There were garter snakes, butterflies, and the fishing was hot. Now you are forcing me to buy roads I do not want. I drive gods car, my legs. I can run 10 miles to the store and 10 miles back if I need to. Officials that build roads with other peoples money should be going to the slammer. Why don't we just have one state that is not forced to pay for roads.

Yes, it may be hard to find a place where you are not part of the collective, or contribute to my own slavery, but at least you can teach people not to be fooled in thinking the government except for police, courts, and laws that help people, environment, and wildlife offer any value.

No I do not want to go to New York. I would rather go to Portland to avoid sales tax.

Every successful civilization relied on the people of wonderful corporations. The country has miles of underground pipelines, it could have miles of underground trains transporting people and goods all paid for with profits (not a dime from taxpayers). End the gas tax (except to pay for pollution). My Indian guides name was White Buffalo, hopefully this concrete jungle can end and the white buffalo will move down from the north and reclaim the prairie.

Who exactly has stopped the corporations from building underground transit steelhouse? Why aren't we flush with these systems right now? Is it because people prefer their cars, prefer to drive on the roads their government builds for them? Why are you trying to force these people away from the system of transit they want? You fascist.

White buffalo lolz. Think steelhouse must be listening to too much Ted Nugent.

This is just bat **** crazy correct?