Cliffnotes: Don't worry about Obama cracking down on porn star bank accounts or spying on people or assassinating citizens, guys, some unnamed "rank and file democrats" actually like libertarian ideas so it's probably cool even though hilary will be dropping the same bombs and bailing out the same banks.

Neo-libertarianism

Remember kids, when the cognitive dissonance hurts too much,

DO: talk about all the bad things that happen in reality land. Make the laundry list as long as possible! Remember, anyone who doesn't self-identify as a libertarian is 100% in favor of everything bad that happens in reality.

DO NOT: talk about how Libertarianism works. Will banks discriminate against some types of professionals in Libertopia? Will "citizens" of Libertarian nations ever be assassinated by DROs? How can we know life will be any better? Goodness, you don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

New improved flavor with 35% less Neo-Confederate sympathy!

Missiledog,

please, use your non-cognatively-dissonanced intellect to tell us all again how ending the war on drugs is NOT a libertarian idea.

Regale us with your tales about how this is somehow all about making YOU PERSONALLY in favor of every bad thing (which, if you read the thread, is actually the tactic you've been employing the whole time, seems weird that you'd be so defensive about it even potentially being turned around on you).

Again, this isn't about YOU. it's about your pathetically transparent argument that doesn't even stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

Bump for missiledog. You want to LOL AT ALL THINGS LIBERTARIAN TYPE, but somehow if we assume you oppose a libertarian idea there's been some INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST TRICK played on you? So here's your big chance, straighten us out. Tell us what you really mean.

LOL no. This has nothing to do with comparing US-Democrats-types or Street-gang-types -vs- Libertarian-types.

The point I keep making, and you keep missing, is that none of these 'right side of obvious' issues are 'Libertarian Issues' at all. How could they be... most all of these issues have existed long before Libertarian-type-ism was ever intentionally and professionally think-tank created (1950s), or widely popularized as a commercial brand name (1970s).

But sure, let's take a closer look at the history of Libertarian-type-ism in regard to some of the issues raised ITT...

Issue	Catagory	Notes
Current Drone Wars	"Rules" of war issue	Historically predates Libertarian-type-ism
Private Drone Weapons	ZOMG crazy !!!1!	Libertarian-types are proponents
Militarized Police	Public policy issue	Libertarian-types aren't opponents
War on Drug Users	Public Policy issue	Libertarian-types are of mixed opinion
Lying to Congress	Simple Honesty	Historically predates Libertarian-type-ism
Surveillance Overreach	Public Policy issue	Historically predates Libertarian-type-ism
Undo Owner Influence	Class issue	Libertarian-types are proponents (not opponents)
Child Labor	Class issue	Libertarian-types are proponents
Sexual Harassment	Gender issue	OK with Libertarian-types, as long as it's what they uniquely call 'voluntary'
Slavery	ZOMG crazy !!!1!	Libertarian-types are of mixed opinion

You got this somewhat correct.

I'll admit I don't care to actually discuss "good policies for the sake of improving things" at all ITT. This isn't a policy thread. In fact, in it's own snarky way, it's a meta-policy thread. This is a LOL@Something broad brush attack thread. Check out the title: Re: LOL @ all things libertarian-type !!!1!.

Besides, to actually discuss and evaluate Libertarian-type policies "for the sake of improving things" IRL... Libertarian-types would have to both break Rule#1 (see above), and be willing to entertain a hypothetical without getting all butthurt and dissembling.

Other than that, LOL@U.

Your Libertarian-type Manicheanism is shining through again. Are you imagining it's all about the Libertarian-types -vs- the 'Statists' ITT? LMFAO no. There ain't any 'right' team ITT, only a team of clowns. And there ain't no finish line to cross, youz guyz just keep on coming and coming...

So I just imagineered up the whole 'Statist'-rights L.Ron (Over)lution long con ??

Man, hippy-dippy social liberals of all stripes have been pushing for legalizing weed since way before internet libertarianism was a thing. You might as well claim that opposing police violence is a uniquely libertarian thing-- o wait, you did that already.

Further, there's no reason a Ron Paul Libertarian-style govt couldn't have draconian drug laws, if that's what the state voters want.

No, I understand that this is the point you're trying to make. I don't miss it at all. It's just that it's a totally stupid point and self-evidently wrong.

"hey guys let's pretend that weed legalization isn't libertarian because libertarians R DUM they can't possibly like anything GOOD and, bonus, then I can make this dumb thread" BRILLIANT, I LOVE YOU MAN, DONT EVER CHANGE.

What does this have to do with anything? Now we're defining "libertarianism" as "ideas that came from the internet"? And what does "uniquely libertarian" have to do with anything? Keep moving them goalposts, keep redefining words on the fly, keep digging that dumb hole you find yourself in.

So? I mean, do you really want to play by this standard? Think about it for more than three seconds. And note, if you do want to go with this, it totally undermines your earlier efforts in this thread were you hitched your wagon to the "libertarianism = full-blown anarchocapitalism" gambit.

LOL @ ALL THINGS LIBERTARIAN TYPE

The great mistake isn't that the drug war is democrat or republican and the great benefit isn't that the drug war isn't libertarian.

The great mistake is the drug war isn't very American. It's outcomes serves none of these principles; peace, liberty, security, and general welfare.

The great benefit is that it is not just libertarians who can realize the great mistake.

Missile dog,

Hate to break this to you but child labor, sexual harassment and slavery all predate internet libertarianism, so you have to scratch them off your list too.

I agree. Missiledog doesn't. It's only non-libertarians who get credit for opposing drugs in his moral calculus.

PVN, to get back to what originally started your discussion with the Trollys, you posted links concerning
1) The drone killing of a US citizen without due process
2) Militarization of police forces
3) An intelligence official lying to congress

You really think most people don't think these are horrendous occurrences? Presumably you posted them because think that in a stateless society these are less likely to occur?

So, why is it less likely that without government:
1) a private, completely unregulated security services company would kill people without due process?
2) a private, unregulated security company would become heavily militarized?
3) a representative of a private, unregulated security organization would not lie about their operations? At least there is a body that is meant to provide oversight and is theoretically accountable to people - i.e. congress - as lol as it is. What kind of equivalent body do you think would exist in a stateless society?

LOL just no... I mean WTF do you mean by a 'Libertarian Idea'?

• Is it an idea that is unique to Libertarian-type-ism? LOL no.
• Is it an idea Libertarian-types thought of first? LOL no.
  Libertarian-type-ism itself hasn't been around that long.
• Was Libertarian-type-ism created around this idea? LOL no.
  In fact, we know what think-tank created Libertarian-type-ism. And we know what it was created as: Cold War propaganda.
• Is it an idea that all Libertarian-types share? LOL no. See L.Ron.
• Is it an idea that most Libertarian-types share?
  
  Not in my personal experience. Most self-identifying Libertarian-types I talk to favor legalizing pot for adults, but are in favor continuing prohibition on hard drugs, and pot for kids. Exactly like most self-identifying 'liberals' I talk to.
  
  Besides, most self-identifying Libertarian-types I talk to are strong 'Statist'-righters, just like L.Ron. And, AFAIK, 'Statist'-rights dogma always trumps Libertarian-type dogma among these idiots...
  
  So once again, no. In my personal experience, Libertarian-types aren't in favor of legalizing drugs... they favor legalizing pot for adults, and only in those jurisdictions where the legitimate government has duly given their prior permissions.
  
  
• Is it an idea that some Libertarian-types share? Maybe, sure.
  But a whole lot are into Gold-buggery too.

I don't see how it qualifies as a "Libertarian-type" Ideal, except in the weakest sense... like saying certain conspiracy theories are Libertarian Ideals too. Correlation != an Ideal.

But of course, YMMV.

But don't fool yourself... if nothing else, I really gotta believe that most Libertarian-types are also 'Statist'-righters. 'Statist'-righters are simply not against the War on Drug Users... their single and simple concern is only how many points the star-shaped badges have.

No. This is a thread claiming libertarian ideas are lol-worthy. Whether "most people" agree that these are bad or not isn't really relevant.

No. This is a thread about libertarianism, not anarchocapitalism.

A) I have no idea what this even means

B) so you want to lol at statist righters? but somehow if you use the word "libertarian" instead it helps your argument because ____________?

In other news, Chuck Schumer wants to ban powdered alcohol but DON'T FORGET KIDDIES RANK AND FILE DEMOCRATS WANT TO GIVE YOU MORE PERSONAL FREEDOM AND LIBERTARIANS* WANT TO TAKE IT AWAY OK KIDS?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/05/...dered-alcohol/

I think the better question is what do YOU mean by it. I mean, this is your thread. So far we have "things that are bad" and "things right-statists like". Seems like a pretty solid definition to me, don't ever change dude.

Missiledog ideas: betterness

libertarian ideas: worseness

QED, let's go home. Who isn't for betterness? Libertarians, that's who! No need to actually examine any pesky policies, we conveniently definied the terms so no critical thinking is required!

Oh noes... I've been misunderstood.

This thread isn't meant in any way to be limited to post internet-era Libertarian-type-ism and Libertarian-types. When I put "all things" into the title, that's exactly what I meant.

Everything Libertarian-type is fair game !!!1!

Starting with the John Birch Society, through A.Rand's painful scribbles, the Koch bros, all the NAPpy 'voluntary' sophistry, The Republic of Minerva, that flourishing market in children, Borodog/Nielsio/zan nen/Livra, L.Ron's (Over)lution, Adam The Man Kokesh, on up to L.Rand in the news.

Well, anarchocapitalism is a 'flavour' of libertarianism. Which libertarian philosophy are you talking about and do you believe in? The term 'libertarianism' seems to be so broad that its basically pointless talking about it because no-one actually seems to know, or agree on, what on earth it is.

Like, as Trolly has pointed out, it seem like a helluva stretch to think that drone assassinations, militarized police forces, and lying officials being a bad thing is a uniquely 'libertarian' position.

It's like: well, bad thing that happens in a democratic, capitalist society* is bad. Ok, fine. So what's the libertarian alternative? What would it look like, specifically? How would it happen?

*Putting to one side for the moment that there are plenty of other democratic, capitalist societies that don't do half the horrendous things the US govt does.

I don't know any libertarian types that favor keeping harder drugs illegal. Is this some bizarre San Diego thing? Or maybe an unusual feature of libertarians that join IWW?

Any Rabd wasn't a libertarian. She said so herself.

It doesn't matter which one I believe in. The title of this thread says ALL THINGS LIBERTARIAN TYPE so why do we need to get into all this semantik subdividing and inquisition?

I disagree, missiledog seems to know (somewhere down there in his head) what he means by it, and his definition seems to be quite specific given the huge number of things he wants to exclude from being considered under that label.

They don't have to be uniquely libertarian. Again, it's ALL things libertarian type, where's all this need to qualify that after the fact in the small type?

Uh.

Bad thing: war on drugs
what's the alternative: not having one
what would it look like, specificially: what difference does this make? I mean how specific do you want to get? Let's talk about EXACTLY what concentrations of THC we'll allow to be sold in the corner grocery store, if you don't have a SPECIFIC ANSWER then obviously it's some utopian pipe dream! I get it, same old bull**** obstructionist endless-series-of-hoops to jump through to satisfy your disingeous hand-wringing "concern" over the kids, THEN, MAYBE, we'll consider your ideas. OK, sure thing dude.

cool story?