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LOL @ all things libertarian-type !!!1!

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05-12-2014 , 11:56 PM

#926

Shame Trolly !!!1!

Neo-Gorean

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 4,847

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

...I probably didn't read it, especially if it's buried in any interaction with proph...

Props for skipping interaction with Proph.

Quote:

... What's incoherent about that?

I honestly don't know what 'that' you are referring to here.

05-13-2014 , 12:01 AM

#927

AlexM

ignored

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,655

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

LOL thinking Landlords will rent to poors in libertarian land.

Nah, someone has to rent to the poors. The difference is that they'll be allowed to just kill someone who resists eviction.

05-13-2014 , 08:44 AM

#928

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexM

Yes, it is circular. You are forcing yourself to rationalize the idea that taxation isn't theft because you believe that theft is inherently wrong but that government is not inherently wrong. Theft is not inherently wrong. It's simply not black and white like that. It all depends on what point on the scale you're at. A man stealing a loaf of bread as a last resort, to feed his starving children isn't merely "justifiable" theft, it's flat out the right thing to do. Theft is wrong unless you have a damned good reason to do it, and the reasons government needs money absolutely qualify. But it's still theft.

Libertarians see that truth. Where they fail is that instead of rejecting the idea that theft isn't black and white, they instead reject taxation as evil, and they're wrong to do that as well, and it leads to other absurd rationalizations like claiming that a lottery can fund all of government. LOL

But when you reject that truth, due to your need to see the morally ambiguous full range of actions categorized as theft as simply black and white wrong, you create a situation where any time you engage a libertarian on the subject, you both lose. Because that's not black and white either. It's not that one of you is right and one of you is wrong. You're both wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

I disagree.

Is it okay for that person to steal a loaf of bread, if there are 50 people behind him in the same predicament, and it's the last loaf?

Authorizing theft on others' behalf is inherently wrong.

You can't delegate the right to theft to someone else, because you don't have that right, yourself. Lather, rinse, repeat for fines, kidnapping/imprisonment, and executions.

Do you understand the difference between someone robbing as a last resort, and authorizing someone else to do that for you, and why the latter is inherently wrong?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexM

The lottery thing honestly makes me wonder if Proph is just someone's gimmick.

I could say the same thing about you.

"Theft is okay if..."

...you're helping other people?

...you force people to comply?

...other people think it's okay?

None of the above? Some of the above? "Other"?

Maybe you're the person I should be asking these questions to, since others refuse to even acknowledge taxation is theft.

05-13-2014 , 08:51 AM

#929

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

Proph,

By your logic, is incarceration equivalent to kidnapping/false imprisonment?

Yes.

Most people imprisoned are there for victimless crimes.

Some people on these forums, like spanktehbadwookie, think that government magically becomes the "victim", when "it" is deprived of what "it" wants.

I'm glad he peaced. I doubt it will last for long, though, especially with this acknowledgement. (If he chooses to participate again, he will probably use a gimmick. His views are indefensible.)

05-13-2014 , 08:57 AM

#930

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

Oh...and....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

Also, I forgot to mention, you can defend yourself from a robber.

Try doing that against government thugs.

Plus, a robber doesn't follow you down the street afterwards expecting more, all the while claiming it's to your benefit.

And, the robber takes all the risk. Can't say the same for lawmakers, when they ask others to retrieve "their" funds.

You know, in many ways, thieves are a lot more respectable than politicians!

05-13-2014 , 09:05 AM

#931

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

Proph,

By your logic, is incarceration equivalent to kidnapping/false imprisonment?

You must have missed this post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

[...]

Authorizing theft on others' behalf is inherently wrong.

You can't delegate the right to theft to someone else, because you don't have that right, yourself. Lather, rinse, repeat for fines, kidnapping/imprisonment, and executions.

Do you understand the difference between someone robbing as a last resort, and authorizing someone else to do that for you, and why the latter is inherently wrong?

Specifically this part:

Quote:

You can't delegate the right to theft to someone else, because you don't have that right, yourself. Lather, rinse, repeat for fines, kidnapping/imprisonment, and executions.

Last edited by Proph; 05-13-2014 at 09:15 AM.

05-13-2014 , 09:11 AM

#932

The REAL Trolly

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 1,603

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

A link to your buddy's previous post will be fine.

Dude. Seriously? I've bumped it like five times ITT.

05-13-2014 , 09:44 AM

#933

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1!

I honestly don't know what 'that' you are referring to here.

whatever it is you think is incoherent.

05-13-2014 , 09:45 AM

#934

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

yes seriously

05-13-2014 , 09:51 AM

#935

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

I didn't peace out. I sent peace out. You have not attacked my positions and instead rely on bullying, slandering, and strawmen.

Speaking of victims, playing a victim is a big part of your routine. It's essential to hold up the weak and discredited tax is theft fallacy due to a dilemma it creates.

05-13-2014 , 09:56 AM

#936

The REAL Trolly

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 1,603

Quote:

Originally Posted by The REAL Trolly

Will there be no taxation in Libertopia? What if states want to collect taxes? Will landlords be able to charge their tenants rent?

bump!

05-13-2014 , 09:59 AM

#937

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie

I didn't peace out. I sent peace out. You have not attacked my positions and instead rely on bullying, slandering, and strawmen.

Speaking of victims, playing a victim is a big part of your routine. It's essential to hold up the weak and discredited tax is theft fallacy due to a dilemma it creates.

I could say the same about you.

Whenever I ask you to clarify, you claim I'm attacking you.

Who is relying on playing the victim, again?

05-13-2014 , 10:07 AM

#938

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

I could say the same about you.

Whenever I ask you to clarify, you claim I'm attacking you.

Who is relying on playing the victim, again?

Why would you say that? Is your behavior the kind that seeks to victimize?

LOL "ask to clarify". We can all read whats been posted here ITT.

I am not victimized by your behavior, just able to observe and make note of it. That's a weakness of bullying-type behavior. Without a person who chooses to be a victim, it doesn't work effectively to create one.

Don't just take it from me though, you are free re-read your posts in the forum and decide for yourself.

05-13-2014 , 10:10 AM

#939

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by The REAL Trolly

Will there be no taxation in Libertopia? What if states want to collect taxes? Will landlords be able to charge their tenants rent?

No. There will be no taxes. A lottery would be sufficient in generating the revenue necessary. The force and theft currently exhibited by governments is unnecessary.

No. States should not be allowed to collect taxes, because taxation is theft. If a group attempts to steal from people under the guise of taxation, the people have a right to defend themselves. It would be suicide to attempt that, in this era.

Yes, since both agree to all of the conditions beforehand, via contracts.

(You were serious? All of this isn't self-evident?)

05-13-2014 , 10:13 AM

#940

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie

Why would you say that? Is your behavior the kind that seeks to victimize?

It seems every post you make, you are complaining about me picking on you, when I am not.

Poor, poor spanktehbadwookie!

Of course, you don't see it.

05-13-2014 , 10:13 AM

#941

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by The REAL Trolly

bump!

uh, no. you said you had the actual reasoning somewhere, that's what I'm looking for. You just saying "this is so" isn't helping.

05-13-2014 , 10:18 AM

#942

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie

LOL "ask to clarify". We can all read whats been posted here ITT.

Can we?

How can I read something you refuse to post?

Where have you defended your view that taxation isn't theft?

I must have missed it.

05-13-2014 , 10:19 AM

#943

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

It seems every post you make, you are complaining about me picking on you, when I am not.

Poor, poor spanktehbadwookie!

Of course, you don't see it.

You prove it again right here. I have yet to complain about your behavior personally. I'm just letting you know that the attack and manipulation has failed and shall continue to fail.

05-13-2014 , 10:21 AM

#944

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

Can we?

How can I read something you refuse to post?

Where have you defended your view that taxation isn't theft?

I must have missed it.

More false indictment and disingenuous questioning.

05-13-2014 , 10:23 AM

#945

The REAL Trolly

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 1,603

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

uh, no. you said you had the actual reasoning somewhere, that's what I'm looking for. You just saying "this is so" isn't helping.

wat? I'm asking some pretty simple questions, I'm not saying anything is so. I even kep it within your three sentence limit!

05-13-2014 , 10:24 AM

#946

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie

I am not victimized by your behavior, just able to observe and make note of it. That's a weakness of bullying-type behavior. Without a person who chooses to be a victim, it doesn't work effectively to create one.

Indeed.

I'm simply standing up to the bully. Your attempts to paint me as the bully are pathetic.

It's too bad you can't make more valuable "observations", by adopting views that might influence your and others' lives positively.

Instead, you choose to blindly follow what you've been told all of your life.

05-13-2014 , 10:27 AM

#947

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

I influence other lives positively by paying my taxes. You should do the same

05-13-2014 , 10:31 AM

#948

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

Indeed.

I'm simply standing up to the bully. Your attempts to paint me as the bully are pathetic.

It's too bad you can't make more valuable "observations", by adopting views that might influence your and others' lives positively.

Instead, you choose to blindly follow what you've been told all of your life.

If you feel that way, I have succeeded. You have bullied yourself effectively by continuing to engage in getting your own behavior repeatedly stuffed back in your face.

The best part of this post, is the last part. Where you bully by using yet another bald appeal to self-doubt with your accusations of indoctrination.

05-13-2014 , 10:32 AM

#949

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsGambool

I influence other lives positively by paying my taxes. You should do the same

You help people by funding their imprisonment?

You help people by funding wars?

You help people by funding incompetent companies?

You help people by imposing your will on them?

You help people by taking their money to do all of this, and more?

LOL!