How much violence should be used against a Neo-Nazi? - Page 2 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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How much violence should be used against a Neo-Nazi?

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01-22-2017 , 08:54 PM

#26

HastenDan

banned

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 1,711

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

You've been asked some questions, why not take a shot at answering them?

Buddy you didn't even read the OP and have failed to answer the questions asked, along with your homophobic friend Fly. Sorry for waiting for answers

01-22-2017 , 08:55 PM

#27

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,183

So why should we try and discuss anything with you again? What question didn't I answer?

01-22-2017 , 08:56 PM

#28

HastenDan

banned

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 1,711

Read the OP, search for "?" marks. Those are questions preceding them. Feel free to answer.

01-22-2017 , 08:57 PM

#29

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

Dan I'm still waiting for that 1(one) post where you disagree with a Trump supporter, but golly gee let's see what subject did get you insprired to put fingers to keyboard:

That's right, you were fired up to expose some libtard* hypocrisy.

*Again, though, you ****ed up real bad here. It's the centrists crying for Spencer, Speechboy and ****, the real left is remixing the video of his **** getting rocked with every song under the sun. How did you get that wrong, with your allegedly wide reading habits?

01-22-2017 , 08:59 PM

#30

HastenDan

banned

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 1,711

You seem to lump people into labels and groups a bit much my friend. My views are guided by morality, principles, and rationality. I do not believe in assault and violence even against vile deplorables such as Spencer.

Shocking you still have failed to answer anything.

01-22-2017 , 09:01 PM

#31

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

Dog as you are aware I'm in favor of punching Nazis, you must be out of your goddamn mind if you think that belief co-exists with the belief that I am also obligated to answer Nazi sympathizer questions so they can congratulate themselves on the purity of their logic.

01-22-2017 , 09:03 PM

#32

th14

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,460

it's moral to use violence against Nazis because they wish violence on others. too much violence would be if it's use become so widespread that people forgot the principles that limit it only to outliers such as Nazis and instead used it against people that do believe in American principles like liberty and equality. In this formulation Democrats and Republicans get along but Nazis aren't invited.

I answer: Yes

01-22-2017 , 09:03 PM

#33

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,945

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Warren Ellis, an English author,

Not sure why you think it matters that they are English.

The reality is that even as we tolerate an element who do revel in that sort of violence, we will also always speak out against them and they will never be the core of the mass movement of decent people who make up such things as the women's march.

In some ways it's a relief to see the facade of 'just being mean to people' finally removed. the very notion of them needing a hug shows just how much the point has been missed.

01-22-2017 , 09:06 PM

#34

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Not sure why you think it matters that they are English.

Uh, it doesn't. It's an explanation of who the quote is from, since there's no attribution in the image and I didn't write that myself.

Quote:

The reality is that even as we tolerate an element who do revel in that sort of violence, we will also always speak out against them and they will never be the core of the mass movement of decent people who make up such things as the women's march.

In some ways it's a relief to see the facade of 'just being mean to people' finally removed.

chez, you literally moderate a "white supremacist friendly" offshoot political forum online.

01-22-2017 , 09:07 PM

#35

Cotton Hill

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 12,307

Violence committed against political ideologies I disagree with is justified because they truly deserve it.

~ Every violent political movement in history

01-22-2017 , 09:07 PM

#36

HastenDan

banned

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 1,711

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

So you are too big of a coward to answer some basic questions on your position of where to draw lines in your worldview. Don't think you are going to be punching anyone my doughy friend, but I understand that you would get off on it.

01-22-2017 , 09:08 PM

#37

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,945

Quote:

Originally Posted by HastenDan

FlyWF, I know you are a homophobic racist neoliberal that despises true progressives, but can you at least clarify your views, or are you too busy stroking it to the idea of someone having the nerve to actually assault someone instead of just fantasizing about it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

chez, you literally moderate a "white supremacist friendly" offshoot political forum online.

None of that here.

Its quite likely to be a lively discussion but keep yourselves in check please

01-22-2017 , 09:10 PM

#38

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

Exactly, chez, exactly.

01-22-2017 , 09:11 PM

#39

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,183

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotton Hill

Violence committed against political ideologies I disagree with is justified because they truly deserve it.

~ Every violent political movement in history

Except it's not Every movement we're talking about, it's Nazis. I'm still going with it's ok to punch a Nazi.

01-22-2017 , 09:12 PM

#40

Loki

binary duo

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 12,772

Question for the folks itt that hate violence against Nazis:

If all the Nazis in the world suddenly dropped dead tomorrow, would the world be

a) a better place
b) a worse place
c) neither better nor worse

01-22-2017 , 09:15 PM

#41

HastenDan

banned

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 1,711

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib

Again feel free to answer the questions in the OP and lay out your exact views on the topic. 3 posts now and you just can't seem to do that hmmmm

01-22-2017 , 09:16 PM

#42

Original Position

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,426

Quote:

Originally Posted by HastenDan

As everyone knows, white supremacist president of the 'National Policy Institute' and overall human scumbag Richard Spencer was sucker-punched by a masked assailant in public the other day.

This was celebrated and meme-ified, and there has been discussion of "is it right to punch a nazi" with, what seems to me at least, a general consensus among many democrats that Yes, punching a white supremacist / neo-nazi is justified and to be celebrated.

While I find Richard Spencer an absolutely vile human being, worthy of any and all derision and protest, at the same time my overall position of physical violence against another human being that is not engaged in physical violence is not justified.

Legally, he was criminally assaulted. The fact it was a sucker-punch by a masked person who then ran away makes the act even more cowardly.

When I was in college there were two crazy people that would appear on campus frequently, one a religious zealot that was telling everyone they were going to burn in hell and another that was a white supremacist. While engaging these people and shouting them down and protesting them, it never occurred to me to physically assault them, as it is against my principles.

In your eyes, is it okay to engage in physical violence against people that engage in hate-speech and that espouse disgusting views?

If you believe that to be the case, what level of violence acceptable? And how disgusting and abhorrent do the views have to be in order to justify the violence?

Is it acceptable to spit on these people? To shove them to escalate violence? To stab them with a knife? To execute them with a firearm? There is a distinction between picking a fight and a confrontation escalating than a pure sucker-punch out of the blue on a defenseless human.

Thoughts?

Punching him was assault and should probably be prosecuted as such. Was it wise? Probably not, although likely pretty unimportant. Was it moral, no, you shouldn't assault people for speaking their political opinions, even if they are evil.

I agree with FlyWf that anti-fascism is a core liberal value, which is why I oppose fascist actions like assaulting people for their political views.

I'm not crying for Spencer though, you ask people to punch you in the face enough times and eventually someone will take you up on it.

01-22-2017 , 09:16 PM

#43

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

Except it's not Every movement we're talking about, it's Nazis. I'm still going with it's ok to punch a Nazi.

First they came for the Nazis, and, uh, wait, let me start over.

01-22-2017 , 09:18 PM

#44

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

Quote:

fascist actions like assaulting people for their political views.

Ah yes who can forget June 6, 1944, when fascists from the UK, America, and Canada stormed the beaches of Normandy to fight with their moral equivalents from Germany.

01-22-2017 , 09:20 PM

#45

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,945

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Exactly, chez, exactly.

We know we disagree a lot on politial method. You support this sort of violence and I don't for example.

You are welcome to discuss it here but there are rules here and I appreciate they are not your cup of tea.

01-22-2017 , 09:22 PM

#46

mongidig

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,116

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib

I think you could ask the same question but substitute liberals for Nazis

My answer would be a) to both

01-22-2017 , 09:24 PM

#47

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

Quote:

Originally Posted by th14

I answer: Yes

Liberals inexplicably kept on cozying up to Kasich, but they forgot that on this one (surprisingly controversial!?!?!?!) view, there was only one GOP primary candidate who got it right

and continues to get it right

01-22-2017 , 09:26 PM

#48

Bill Haywood

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,643

As gratifying as beating Nazis may be, the problem is that it invites reprisals. As the political process becomes more violent, it benefits elites because they have so many more resources for committing atrocities. Violence pushes pushes politics into more difficult terrain. Creating violent incidents is a routine trick of repressive institutions planning crackdowns. Street fighting is usually macho, self-indulgent posturing with little up side.

So Spencer's ilk should only be assaulted on foreign excursions.