Try what again? You accommodated me and I complimented you on the effort.

The question for me is the business acumen mostly a result of having money and connections, while doing math and making self-interested decisions? Is it really that remarkable?

If I had to give Trump a prominent success, he is ubiquitous for being a celebrity for being rich and using the appeal and entertainment of being a rich ******* into a lasting first place performance in early presidential polls. He is winning his own cult of personality and he thinks it's great and Jeb Bush's cult of personality is stupid and it is!

Ok sorry my bad. Didn't realise that was a compliment.

Forget my response.

Not that it makes any difference to the Trump argument, but many people posting on this website who are in the US and make a good living are easily in the top "700 million" in the world in terms of average income, net worth, etc. Not all that difficult given how many worldwide there are who live on $2 a day.

It's already been illustrated to you how wrong this was, but, let's pile on just a bit more. No, "most" don't. In the NFL and NBA, a decent percentage go "broke", and others have, as you quoted, "financial stress". You're forgetting MLB, the NHL, professional golfers, horse racing (jockeys), auto racing, etc. You're the one so focused on semantics, so go ahead, please show up that "most" of the entire group of people involved in professional athletics lose all of their money. This /= some people in the NFL and NBA declaring bankruptcy.

Stop being a nit. I pulled that number out of thin air to make a point. If anything, it should make it even more impressive. If making 80k will put you in the top 7 million people on the planet than it goes to show how incredibly hard it is to reach the top 500.

Everyone who knows anything about money knows how hard it is to 1) make it 2) grow it. It's hard. It's really hard. Everyone here who has a 401k can probably attest to how difficult it can be. Yeah, it grows, and it and grow substantially, but it sure ain't getting to 4 billion. Not in my lifetime, anyway. I'm just not a guy who handwaves 4 billion dollars away like it's no big deal. To me it's impressive.

We've been over this. But I don't see how I'm the on focused one semantics. I'm just looking at it in a reasonable light. You guys are the ones who are being unreasonable. Amassing a 4 billion dollar net worth isn't impressive, it's downright amazing. In my opinion, it's incredibly hard to do. I would love to be worth a million dollars. Hell, I'd be tickled pink if I could ever be worth 2 or 3 million. 4 billion is unfathomable to me. Maybe it's just tiresome old hat to you, I dunno. "You're worth 4 billion? Bah. Noob."

Its an accomplishment, just not one that in and of itself makes one a success at everything imaginable in life or, frankly, anything close to it.

One wonders what level of success this is indicative of

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...rrest-1927-kkk

Oh Trump's father may have been a bigot which is conclusive proof, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Trump is not successful. Wow, thanks for your insight and bringing that to our attention. I'm now going start taking serious heed to your posts because of the incredibly persuasive arguments you have made and insight you have demonstrated. Again thanks for your posts as I was really getting tired of reading various posts from complete morons on this site.

Andy Kesslers oped in the WSJ today also gave another perspective on trumps accomplishments and how initial wealth/connections made a huge difference

B- rant. Could've closed stronger. May have to settle for the bronze.

Not Trump though, he's a douche. Steelhouse for prez!

Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelhouse.

Donald Trump is probably correct about taxing hedge fund managers. They are paid typically a 2x20 fee - 2% of the total assets invested and 20% of profits over alpha. What else can that be other than income. That should be taxed as income, not capital gains.

He was rather boring on Fallon last night and he gave the typical answers not to offend anyone. He was even in support in Syrian refugees. The crowd can wear you out.

He wants to help Syrian refugees? What a loser!

Steelhouse turning ohmut to be secretly pretty racist was a pretty funny development

It's very hard to say as there's so few with his advantages and attitude.

In my somewhat prejudiced opinion he's a natural born unscrupulous salesman of a certain type and given all his advantages his business performance seems okayish. To do significantly better he would have had to be remarkably good or possibly far more crooked.

Actually the article didn't really indicate that at all. Trump's questionable value and ethics, in Kessler's view, in how he did/does business is what the article was about. Again if superior wealth guaranteed higher returns on investment then how come all institutions and even all hedge funds don't achieve similar returns on investment that Trump does.

I was actually surprised that Trump started out with $250 million, I thought it was $500 million. A couple of things about the article. Regarding the bankruptcies of his businesses. Yes Trump used a ton of leverage in financing his casinos. I am not aware of any accusations that Trump did anything illegal or even that he did anything to bilk the owners of his debt. They knew what they were getting into when they lent his business money. GM went bankrupt to and the tax payers paid billions to keep them afloat. As far as I know the Trump business bankruptcies were handled as any chapter 11 bankruptcies would be handled. Getting tax breaks from government is some sort of sin now? Like that doesn't happen constantly at all levels of government. Making money off of his books by promoting himself is somehow underhanded? Kessler article seems pretty weak to me. Yes Trump isn't a Henry Ford or a even Bill Gates. I think it is fair to say that Trump has probably "gamed the system" to his advantage. Personally I don't find him to be someone to admire or even hold up as some sort of role model for how to conduct business.

In 40 years he has miltiplied his net worth by between 16 and 32 depending on whose accounting for assets you use. Is that good or bad? You tell me and it might not be that good.

The chapter 11 stuff for sure isn't like immoral or illegal, it's just sort of indicative that he's a bit of a cowboy that isn't great at operating businesses. I'm not even saying the article shows Trump to be unethical, but it shows how the two key factors in Trumps wealth are his fathers wealth and connections.

Trump would instantly be the best president since Bush senior

The reality is the Trump Organization is nothing more than a real estate empire. Yes, you can go to a building and select the marble or inspect the work but what you are talking about is a $100K a year job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFmNMoSvdWE

Basically, he is using his land holdings and rent to increase his land ownings and rent. You want a tent to raise your house, they want buy your tent and force you to lease it. The reality is every immigrant you let in the country reduces your square footage and makes you poorer. It is not racism very simple minds and stupid people make it out to be. It reduces the amount of wildlife and the amount of fish you can catch in a lake. People pro-immigrant are eco-terrorists.

For every land holding people own more than 40 acres, we should tax them about $1000 per acre. For every acre over 1000 acres we tax them $5000 per acre. For every acre over 10,000 acre we tax them $20,000 per acre. This will force Trump to sell his land holdings. He will then become a developer.

I don't think these numbers are correct. Fred Trump didn't die until 1999 and his estate was divided among 4 children and possibly others.

If Trump had started with $250m 40 years ago, he would have dramatically underperformed the stock market. A dollar invested in the SP500 at the end of 1974 was worth $95.91 40 years later.

But Trump's finances are much more complex than that. After great success in the '80s, he actually had a negative net worth into the early '90s. Here's a long article from 10 years ago detailing his (fluctuating and controversial) net worth over the years.

Steelhouse suing people ITT

Epic level? Bush Sr was so good he carried 18 states as an incumbent, including losses in Arkansas, Louisiana, Georgia, Kentucky, Missouri, and West Virginia, not to mention finishing 3rd in Maine.

I'm starting to really get worried. Prez Trump. Meeting more and more people who will vote for him, people I wouldn't have thought. He's the next Reagan. He'll show them libs. He'll get the hostages back from Iran, unlike Obama/Carter. President Trump. He'll fix our broken govt like a business. He'll defeat ISIS with lightning bolts from his arse. Oh boy.

What it means is Trump would be better than Clinton, W., Obama. Doesn't necessarily mean worse than Bush Sr.