We may have to take you to the woodshed.

signed...

A rep said that it's planned to be included in the next update which he said is suppose to happen really soon

Yes, this change is on our list. I was hoping to have it changed early this year. However, we're currently reworking the list of priorities. I will keep you informed when I have a better idea of where this one lands.

hopefully fixing your servers is #1 on the list

+1

This. I started playing SNG's/MTT's on the site this december and numerous times disconnections have interrupted gameplay. If it's a problem with servers with this amt, imagine the milly coming up...

u guys have the fury of king Solomon keeping my thread alive this long

viva wpn

signed... I love WPN but not seeing mucked hands is the worst.

signed, easily the worst thing about WPN (i mean, besides the lag, million dollar cancellation, and ridiculously long tournaments to win like $1k)

signed

Signed

Sadly this is probably the best feature on site
But hey let's just hand feed the fish in the already small bowl

agreed. I can't speak to any of the other formats (in tourney's, at showdown, doesn't any hand reaching showdown get tabled?) but in cash games, if you don't want to table your hand and are content to give up the pot, your cards shouldn't be shown.

leave it this way!

I don't understand why this is such an issue for so many? against regs, just being a semi-proficient hand reader allows you to guesstimate their range. why do you need to see exactly where they were in said range? all it does is allow you to be even more results oriented.

against fun players, what does it matter what they have? nothing they do makes much sense as is. you really need confirmation that they called down with a gutter, made third pair and now can't find a fold on the river? the guy is 37/10 or something, lol.

coming from a cash game pov, I really have a hard time finding the benefits of changing this

you can talk about collusion protection, but the player (reg) pool is so small here everyone already knows everyone. everyone already has large databases on each other. all this does is

1 - discourage fun players from doing silly things because it won't be shown

2 - provide regs, in an already tiny player pool, more info to dissect your game even further.

if I'm working on busting apart your game and have a 10k hand sample on you, do you not realize how much easier it is to do so with 1k+ hands that have went to showdown because all cards are available vs just 200-300 hands because your losers are mucked? you guys are digging your own graves here.

I understand and agree with what you're saying. What trumps that, for me, is the fact that some information is now hidden. How do we truly know these games are fair or have a way to compare them to other sites if some of the information is hidden.

signed. is gettin ridic now, let a ***** see

Don't forget that a lot of players are results oriented. Not being able to see the showdown hands is simply less fun for a lot of recreational players.

Poker games on TV only became popular to the general public after all the whole cards were shown. I think, likewise, that not seeing the showdown cards online makes it a very boring game to exactly the players that this network wants to attract.

there are several very different thought processes that get lumped under the umbrella term results oriented. for instance:

1) i got in KK against AA, which is a bad outcome, therefore i should have folded.
2) i played exceptionally and won $1k in aiEV but lost $1k in actual money, therefore i feel like a failure.
3) i witnessed a result to a hand. poker is a game of incomplete information, and there is a direct correlation (and, if applied correctly, causation) between how much of that information is filled in and how much a person is able to win. therefore, i won't discard this information but instead apply it in a bayesian manner to further dissect my opponent's ranges in the future.

1) and 2) are flawed thought processes while 3) is an accurate one, yet they all get conflated together by categorizing them all as results oriented.

unless you are bad at bayesian reasoning and/or are poor at leveling games and subject yourself to them, OF COURSE seeing more of your opponent's hole cards is going to help you. you WANT to see them and you WANT to be "results oriented" (can we come up with a different term for this?) about them in an intelligent, statistical manner. then you can move from guesstimating ranges to estimating ranges to pinpointing ranges.

this is actually the most useful situation to see your opponent's hole cards. there is significantly more variation in fish play than reg play, so initial estimates of a fish's ranges are incredibly imprecise and there are more pieces of the puzzle to fill in. each showdown we see is more likely to fill in a piece of the puzzle against a fish than it is against a reg. additionally, fish are more likely to have glaring leaks lurking in the shadows, so the value of each additional puzzle piece against a fish is greater. if you see a fish call down with a gutter, that's INCREDIBLY useful information. some fish don't call down with gutters. some fish raise them. some fish wouldn't have called those cards preflop. etc etc. fwiw, i hate puzzles and regret using this analogy.

frankly it seems you are grossly undervaluing showdowns and are likely giving up a lot of money in doing so.

^^^^^ yeah, what that smart guy said.

Speaking as a fish, but not the fishiest of all fish, I figure I'll be able to use the information better than my weaker opponents can use it, but not as well as my stronger opponents. So I'd think the stronger you are, the more you'd want the information.

another bump. is this ever going to happen???
I've yet to see any functional changes to the software.
I really believe they can't do it are are just blowing smoke. I'd be glad to be wrong.

Nope. They couldn't care less about servers that can't handle Monday night traffic and that affects them deeply. Why would anyone think they'd care about what a handful of poker players want on a forum that about 3% of their players read?

What was the networks response to this petition if any?

A while ago a rep said it was going to happen just not sure when.

Yeah it is ridiculous and they need to change it

This is really a great point.

On another note, I think fish react negatively to being forced to show because of the embarrassment of rolling a stupid hand over with the whole table staring, especially following the sting of losing a pot. The process, not the result, is what bothers people.

SIGNED+1 SO IT SHALL BE WRITTEN SO IT SHALL BE DONE

WSOP

71. Showdown: In a non all-in showdown, if cards are not spontaneously tabled, the Floor People may enforce an order of show. The last aggressive player on the final betting round (final street) must table first. If there was no bet on the final street, then the player who would be first to act in a betting round must table first (i.e. first seat left of the button in flop games, high hand showing in stud, low hand showing in razz, etc.) Players not still in possession of their cards at showdown, or who have mucked face down without tabling their cards, lose any rights or privileges they may have to ask to see any hand. The winning hand must be shown to claim the pot. If a participant refuses to show their hand and intentionally mucks his or her hand, the participant in violation will receive a penalty, in accordance with Rules 39, 107 and 108.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvHt...4D737&index=12

34:00 MINUTES IN