Be careful with that 6% rake. If you've only played 500 games, it's unlikely that you are paying a 6% rake. If you are playing a game with a 2x multiplier you are actually paying a 33% rake. On average the rake will decrease as you win more of the higher multipliers. For the average player, it will take many years of playing to actually realize the 6% rake. I think that it was coon74 who showed that after about 3000 games you'll be paying a 7.5% rake.

Hi Mr Cruz... I'm not fully understanding, the rake % isn't fixed? (ex. $2 @ 6% = .12... The rake amount changes?) Thanks and sorry if this is a stupid question..

The 6% rake is really just a statistical average of the rake that you will pay once you win all of the multipliers including the largest multiplier. When you win a 8x multiplier, for example, you need to think of those winnings as rakeback. Once you've received all the rakeback from winning all the possible multipliers, then the average rake that you have paid is 6%. When you play a game with just a 2x multiplier you can clearly see that a third of the pot is taken out as rake.

Actual rake paid for a tournament is given by the formula:So for a jackpot game, the actual rake paid is determined by which multiplier you actually hit, since that determines the prize pool.


Expected rake is given by multiplying each possible actual rake amount (as determined by possible multipliers) by its probability of happening, and then summing the results. Expected rake for the WPN Jackpots is 6%. (See spoiler below.) VIP points, rakeback, etc. are awarded based on expected rake.


When you consider a single game, there's a 70.5% chance that it will be a 2x, which would mean you pay 33% in actual rake. That leaves a 29.5% chance that you hit a higher multiplier, which would mean you receive negative rake (since the prize pool is greater than all the buyins paid). But it's not hard to see that you will most likely pay 33%.

As you consider more and more games, the "most likely" actual rake moves from 33% down towards 6%. An infinite number of games would guarantee you pay exactly 6% actual rake. Anything less means you "most likey" pay more than 6%, although there is always a chance to get lucky, even if you play only one game.

It's going to require someone being a luck box.

6% is the total rake but taken out of the pool but the majority of people won't get even get close to even EV in the overall draws unless they are luck boxes.

Where people can make money in these games besides being a complete luck box in the draws is by having a decent skill level and yes their are skill edges in these games just not as much as in standard format sngs and top volume regs will benefit if they ever get added to SNC.

This is why you will hear regs saying they won't really play these until they are added to SNC but when that happens the games will be tougher so the question will be if SNC will bring more profitability or hurt the games due to reg infestation.

As for the rec player who won't see SNC money they are better off with the full RB as they are setup right now and have a better chance overall of winning more games at the moment with less reg infestation.

I was a supporter of SNC and kind of am still because I don't feel it's fair the network is keeping full rake at the moment but would rather see them not include these in SNC dropping the rake 25% letting all the players keep that instead of including that amount in SNC.

It would benefit everyone who is going to play them across the board making it healthier for the overall poker economy and not just higher volume players like myself with the rake decrease and no SNC but unfortunately that isn't going to happen.

+1

wpn rep....... put the multiplier in the hand history so after few months regs can compile and have proof of that % you are paying multipliers!!

as of now we just have to trust you. It would be best for everyone that we can use data from 100s of player to verify your paying what you say

This is why you shouldnt play these. You got to trust wpn that this will hit jackpot. It is no different than playing one of their slot machines. They can control the out come of the game.

Hey all I am new to acr (In the US) and have been playing the $10 jackpot (spins) for the most part. I have noticed something pretty crazy so far.. this is only about 6 hours of logging (two tables). This is the only stat I have been accurately keeping track of so far and its pretty crazy imo. Anyone else noticing this?

I have been keeping track of how many times I am all in preflop with the best hand and lose. I only started writing it down because it was happening so much, so after about 40+ times of losing I started taking notes.

I have went all in preflop 29 times with the best hand (since writing it down) and I have lost 21 of these. Some of these were dominating favorites, others were 60 40 favorites. This does not include coin flips (btw, I have lost approx. 80 percent of coin flips also so far).

I know this is not a huge sample but still quite disturbing. In the long run I would hope it would equal out but means I should be going on a real hot streak soon lol.

You can hope for that if you like, but that's not the way probability works. When you flip a coin and get 10 heads in a row, the probability of getting tails in the next flip, and every subsequent one, is still 50% - assuming the coin isn't biased, of course. So, you should expect that your 60/40 hands will come in 60% of the time in the future. Well actually, that's not quite what you should expect - you should expect that you will have all sorts of runs well above and below this, but in the long run your results should approach EV. Notice I said approach - this doesn't come from good streaks balancing off each bad streak, but just from the fact that the more you play, the less of a factor these hits from variance will play in your overall results. There are people who understand this and explain it much better than I to be found here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/25/probability/

You should consider getting software like PokerTracker or Holdem Manager. They'd be useful for you to review your play, and they'd also allow you a more reliable way of determining how often things are happening than writing down notes.

Apologies to others if this isn't where his post belongs, but it certainly didn't warrant its own thread in Internet Poker, and I didn't want to subject a brand new poster to the rigged thread; I thought this might be somewhere he could get assurances from others that play these on a regular basis.

Not putting his post in the riggie thread is like giving him a Xmas gift.

Lol...Bobo has a heart sometimes.
btw,I win half my flips and approx 61% of my 60/40's

I keep seeing the average duration for $2 PLO games at 4 minutes, are people just potting every hand or is the duration bugged?

Ive played two of them and won both, but I kept picking terrible spots so Im gonna need some studying if I want to grind those.

After 4 days of 4-7 hour sessions (2 tables, 10 and 40 dollar spins) and keeping track of every hand I was all in ahead(at least ahead 60 40), turns out I lost 74 percent of them. I lost 78 percent of flips also. After all this I was still up though. But I have decided I just personally don't feel things are legit at acr, lots of little things that just stick out to me that kept happening over and over besides the stats I was keeping track of listed above. I am new to online poker so still don't know how to use poker tracker but that is our next thing, once I am setup and able to play on stars my wife and I are going to study and learn as much as we can to be successful at online poker. We have both played live poker for awhile and do fine at 1/2 and 2/5 stakes. I live 2 hours from canada so I am just going to rent an apartment in canada and set it up so I can play on stars.

I know my results I have found from my very short sample does not mean anything is for sure fishy with acr but sadly I just have this doubt already etched in my head that **** is rigged haha, so just want to start off where I feel everything is on the up and up and with the amount of players throughout the world on stars I feel that is the place for us to dedicate our time.

I suggest you to start learning PT4 in your free time even before you move. The emigration is the right decision, though, imho, but not because of WPN's RNG (in whose fairness I still believe) - just because you'll have more options, and site selection is important in such a short stack format as Spins, where you have to rely on the presence of recreationals in the games. (I don't know how soft the field is in Full Tilt $50s, try them out too, especially if you don't want to commit yourself to getting Supernova Elite.)

Been in a few of those.... Everyone only bets pot

It is plo which means pot pot pot allin. All yea need to do is pot that ****

i pot that **** on everything

<3PLO

lol ive had 2 -40 bi sessions this week running ~19k and ~15k below cev in games that shud be crushed and i have more faith in acrs rng then you do. must be terribly awful to have run so bad and still be up $

Lol, vs you, the button line is to limp 98%, call, evaluate the flop and turn equity vs a 100% range, easy game (Well, OK, limp/3betting AA**/KK**/AK**ss/AQ**ds perhaps makes more sense.)

I couldn't care less, though, as I find 2-card jackpots more profitable (people have gross ranges of stacking off pre and equities don't run that close).

Besides, I can barely grind 4 tables of PLO JPs due to the abundance of postflop play, while I could play 6-8 tables of NLHE JPs after some practice.

someone should start a pool on when these damn jackpots will hit. taken forever.

Only a matter of time.

2,000 game update.

ROI: 12.2%
Games: 1,982
Profit: $1,223

very nice