i cant wait to tell donkeys that 1st pays the same as 4.5th place

yea the wpn ceo is always in threads beaking and on twitch but can't address something simple as this

I'm not a big fan of posters outing other players in an open forum to begin with. Too often I've seen damage done to people who aren't guilty of anything. Asking a site to look into something is fine. That request should generally be made to support though. If someone decides to post it in a forum they have a right to do that. But then demanding that the site gives them the results of the investigation is a bit much. If the evidence in this thread is any indication of what has been given to WPN, it's no wonder they haven't acted.

What I take offense with is the posters who are ridiculing WPN security for not doing their job when those posters don't have a clue as to what the totality of the stats show. Those posters aren't simply asking security to look into something, they are, in fact, assuming that the person that they are accusing is guilty and are demanding that security ban them. They refuse to accept that security's investigation may have resulted in a different conclusion therefore 'security must be a bunch of idiots'.


How is that different from what any other site does? How many players have Merge or Bovada announced to be cheaters? There are very good reasons that they don't. We are really lucky that WPN has more reps on 2+2 than does any other network. If we start badgering them to do things that they can't do, those reps may end up disappearing just as Merge's did.

That's exactly what I am saying. But if they start announcing who cheaters are they certainly will need to raise the standard to Murder 1 levels of evidence because they are eventually going to get sued if they are wrong. Even if a person is a cheater, if a site doesn't have evidence that can stand up in court that cheater can win a sizable amount of cash. Just look at what Lance Armstrong did to people who called him a cheater.

If sites have to start making cheating info public, that will result in the exact opposite of what posters in this thread want. It will make it much more difficult for networks to keep cheaters off their sites.

Any business can ban customers from their establishment for no reason whatsoever. But if they ban customers for the wrong reasons or if they voice their reasons to third parties, they can find themselves in trouble.


As far as the format goes, I think that it's not just the DON format that is vulnerable; I think that any 6max sitngo games can be a problem. I think that Winning CEO said that he was looking into 8max DONs which I think would be a good idea. 10max would be best but the player pool might not be able to support them yet.

Too bad WPN isn't like Bovada for one thing where you can download the full hand history of any sng a day later with all hole cards showing not just hands that get to showdown. If you think a game had a few colluders even with anon player names on that site you just write down the game number and look it up later on viewing the hands to draw your own conclusion.

Of course in general I think that is bad for other forms of poker especially cash but it serves it's purpose for DONs.

Really though? You've expressed this concern frequently, and I don't doubt your sincerity. But I just don't see how there is going to be a Richard Jewell of the WPN DON collaboration thread.

Yes, some posters are going too far.

However, WPN needs to establish its competence and credibility:
Because it's an unregulated offshore site.
Because it wasn't able to pull off the milly.
Because if they tell you something will take X amount of time it will take at least 2.5X amount of time.
Because I've got an ACR account and a 5Dimes account, and two PCs and two ISPs and two credit cards, and I know it will let me register twice for the same tourney, and I strongly suspect it would let me play two seats (Momma raised me right though).
Because they have said little and seemingly done nothing to address player's concerns about collaboration.

So:
No reason to have faith in WPN's competence generally.
No reason to have faith in any security measure that we can test without actually becoming cheaters ourselves.
A non-zero amount of evidence that collusion is occurring, provided by multiple players.
A game format where collusion would be highly effective and somewhat difficult to prove.
A network with various skins and tournament partners where it would be inherently difficult to catch cheating.
Minimal communication from WPN to address these concerns.
No visible action from WPN to address these concerns.

That sounds harsh. All of my interactions with WPN have ultimately been positive ones. They are my favorite place to play, and I hope the network succeeds massively. All of the above is still true though.

For all of those reasons, many of us are assuming at this point that WPN security is ineffective at preventing collaboration in DONs.

And cheaters of the world, if you're not colluding in these things, you're probably missing quite an opportunity. Which just wouldn't be like you, cheaters.

Your counterargument seems to be that no one has provided completely conclusive evidence that any given player is cheating.
That counterargument is both true and irrelevant.
It's true that no one has provided conclusive proof of any specific player cheating.
There's still good reason to believe that collusion occurs, and that WPN is ineffective at preventing it in DONs. Which is a lot nicer than calling WPN security "a bunch of idiots", but it amounts to the same thing in the end.


We agree that publishing the names of cheaters is unlikely and unwise. If WPN wants to differentiate itself in the marketplace, they can avoid doing what Merge has done. That means addressing these concerns. Being the not-Merge has been working pretty well for WPN so far. It's why I'm here, anyway.

This is unregulated online US poker. It's the wild wild west. Not sure there's a venue for that lawsuit. But anyway, yes, don't release the names.

It's a matter of degree. It would be beneficial to play two hands even in a big MTT, just not as beneficial. We're all going to continue to get somewhat cheated. It's the wild, wild west. But WPN needs to stop offering the most vulnerable format.

Unfortunately these things do happen. A year and a half ago I got into a colossal debate with posters accusing someone of cheating who I knew wasn't cheating. That individual's income was derived in part from p2p transactions. He had an excellent reputation in that regard. The cheating allegations damaged his ability to make money. I was flamed by posters for 2 weeks who didn't have a clue as to what they were talking about. The thread itself was started by a scammer/hacker specifically to settle some sort of grudge. The scammer even made an anonymous phone call to the person being accused during the course of the thread just to rub in what he was doing to him.

Take a look at who started this thread: Cyal8loser. It's entirely possible that Cyal8loser was just trying to get rid of players who were beating him rather than going after any real colluders. Who knows? Whatever his intentions were, they may very well have been disingenuous considering he turned out to be the cheater.

When we have scammers starting threads or players who really don't understand what constitutes evidence, then yes it is possible for Richard Jewell's to be falsely accused.

If you paid attention to my post, you would note that I said Cyal8erloser may very well be connected to the bottom 2 names. I did not say he was for sure.

The bottom 2 I am certain know one another and the chances are very high that they are soft-playing/colluding with one another.

Ok, fair enough, I can see how that could happen.
And I agree re Cyal8loser.

I should note that WPN Rep did not reply to my PM or to my referenced post =(

Guys, I just joined for the sole purpose of reporting players 1.AcnupuH4uK (Moldova)
2. oddspotodds(Minsk, Belarus). 3.TPEHEP(Minsk, Belarus lol) 4. OCKAJI(Russia) I've been observing their play for months and will upload hand #'s shortly, however it's difficult for me to get hand #'s while playing many tables. I first called out AcnupuH4uK and oddspotodds via chat about 2 months ago. The day after that, they were both gone(after regging all day everyday prior). About a week later, AcnupuH4uK returns with a new "regular": TPEHEP. I noticed more extreme soft play towards each other/hyper aggression towards everyone else(obvious pattern of collusion), and decided to see where he was from. He is from the same fukking city as oddspotodds. That alone is extremely suspicious, and when you witness the actual game play, it will become undeniable. Again, I don't have as many hand #'s as I would like, but please, to any regs, observe and report!

no use in reporting this, it already has been done and the wpn "security" is too incompetent or just flat out don't care about it. Clearly these people cant do this on pokerstars so they come to a site that harbors cheaters. WPN CEO and Manager will come in threads and address many things but this something they show no attention.

i've just refused to register any DON's they are on the list for, pretty much all we can do at this point

I have played a lot of games with all of these guys(thousands of hands), and I noticed some strange sh*% with them. First off it seems like a bunch of them are playing or none of them usually, and then,

A few days ago, I noticed AcnupuH4uk started playing b/c he joined some of my games, and then at the EXACT same time, oddspotodds started playing.
I mean those guys were gone for days, and yes they play the same stakes but they both start at exactly the same time? Ok that by itself is just unusual coincidence, but then,


And then i noticed something else shady- acnu and oddspotodds were stating games at different levels, but then they would join all of each others games as soon as other players joined. But they would never be the first 2 players registered in any game. That is REAL SHADY. Because they both played all of the game that were going off at all of the levels that they both were regging. When I play, I don't worry if the lobby shows me and another reg as the only players regged in 5-6 different games b/c I am not doing anything wrong. But these guys made sure it was harder to notice that they were playing i all of the same games.

I have played hundreds of 20-$50 DON's with them, so I am not just talking out of my ass b/c I noticed xyz in the past week. At first I thought they were just all regs playing at the same time b/c of the bonuses and b/c the player pool is small but over time I have had reason to be more and more suspicious of them.

You guys should compile a list of hands that stand out and post them here.

i hope these guys are brought to justice, they personally cost me 1k~

oddspotodds was beaking alil at the tables today so hes def aware of the allegations and stuff posted on 2+2 as he was talking about it

Tell us more?

Not saying you are wrong or right.

As I've said in earlier posts, I think it's highly likely there is a significant amount of cheating in DONs, because why wouldn't there be? If you provide an opportunity for someone to make money easily with minimal likelihood of being caught and minimal consequences if caught, cheaters gonna cheat.

Just wanted to see evidence, if you have any.

I can't guarantee if Acnu is colluding or not as he plays a wide range of games... but it is possible there is softplay?

OCKAJI/Acnu/TPEHEP I cannot guarantee are not colluding among one another.

oddspotodds/TPEHEP have not played a game together according to SharkScope, so they may very well be the same person on two different skins.

Ok guys, I have some hand numbers for ya. As I'm sure y'all know, these hands aren't conclusive evidence by themselves, but they do show a pattern associated with collusion, especially when it happens over a large sample.
#350220723
#350213207
#350221476
#350207364
#350208208
#350211152
#350213207
#347936716

Their hand history program sucks compared to Bovada. If there is an easier way to post these just let me know and I'll gladly do it.

Just so everyone knows, I'm a regular player on Bovada, and I've been refunded a total of 4 times for collusion. On the last refund, one of the security team members personally sent me an email saying they appreciate my help in reporting. They said they normally don't give out info on their investigations, but it was my report that got them busted. So I know what I'm talking about here, and these players are def colluding. And to everyone saying it doesn't matter, please, I'm begging you to just send an email to security@blackchippoker.eu, and just state the players names. You don't even have to give any hand #'s. If enough people report them, something WILL get done, and y'all WILL get refunded. Thanks

None of us here can see those hand histories based on just the hand #s to give our thoughts on potential soft play taking place except for people who work for WPN.

I'm not sure how to show it in text form. All you have to do is go to game replayer and search the hand #. These 2 hands are consecutive, and like I said, you see stuff like this all the time with them.
#350220723
#350221476

Just search this at the top of the main lobby under game info -- Game replayer --search via hand #

Like I've said before there will never be any "clear" evidence if acnu is colluding with the other 3 accounts. Although I do believe it is VERY likely the 2 hands posted above can not prove guilty etc. That is just the problem with DON's they are very hard to police although I find this case with acnu-(ockj, tephep, oddspot) pretty obvious. People will say that they aren't colluding but out of the thousands of games show me a few times if any that acnu and one of the other said accounts clash for a stack which i assume is never and thats how they collude.

Wow, had no idea this will pull up hands not played.

I wasn't sure if I could pull up others hands that way if I wasn't on the table.

So I'm going to look these over and give my thoughts in a new message. I've played a ton of dons over the years back when they started as 10 mans on stars, bovada 6 mans, Merge, and now on WPN.