Bottlez, you're trying to do a good thing.

And I believe there is cheating in these games.

But trying to convince me that a specific player is cheating by showing me video of his play is a bit like trying to convince me that someone is an alcoholic by showing me video of that person having a few drinks in a few bars. I believe there are alcoholics. He might be an alcoholic. He might not be. The video might be enough to raise questions, but it's not enough to convince a reasonable person of the answers to those questions.

If you can (for example) show me data that player X and player Y have a thousand hands together in DONs, and they have never (or only a few times) shoved their big stack against the other's short stack during steal situations, you've got something.

That data is not impossible to obtain. I know you said you don't use your HUD while playing DONs, but do you import the hands into PT or HEM? If so, you've got that data.

I don't think the site gives a damn. But if you want to alert your fellow players, OK.

Even with data, you'll only catch the dumbest cheaters. Smart ones will, for example, shove against their collaborator's short stack only 25% less frequently than they would against a stranger. That (along with other collaborative behavior) is still enough to give the cheaters a substantial edge, but it won't stand out much in the data.

It's incredibly hard to get that data and go through it because I'd have to look at so many hand histories, bubbles,etc...

I honestly don't have that kind of data because when I realized what was going on I stopped sitting in games where these two players were already registered because it makes no sense especially at the $50 to $100 DONS. If this was the $5's I'd purposely register for a while just to mess up their universe but I'm not going to do that for bigger buyins.

A point I'm trying to say is that some collusion is so obvious though. You don't need thousands of hands of data from some of the things these guys do. Any regular can see that but to a newbie who has no clue about DON strategy they yeah it could be a tough thing to prove no matter how obvious it is to people who regularly play and win at DONs.

Understandable. I wouldn't need conclusive proof to stop playing with those players either, just a strong suspicion.

I can believe that you have video that would make most regs suspicious.

The small sample size of a video means that the evidence you are going to present, while not zero evidence, is going to be well short of properly proving anything.

I say "properly" proving, because we both know that some players only need to have their aces cracked twice in a row to be convinced that all online poker is rigged against them. Lots of riggies will tell you it's so obvious, and show or talk about a small number of hands, and none of them will have real data. Don't be that DON collaborators version of that guy.

It's a hard call I guess. What do you hope to achieve? Probably regs have their suspicions already. WPN seems uninterested.

Anyone who watches the video ... who knows anything about bubble play.. can see something odd is going on

Guys will say "uhhh that's just one game " etc...

But its not... y would beerz waste his time making a video.. if it wasnt goin on in tons of games

At this point hopefully regs don't give them guys action or take notice and if enough people contact WPN then MAYBE something would be done.

Of course I'd love WPN to eliminate colluders taking it more seriously but they don't want none of it so this is more of a public awareness effort by me hoping others will see what I am saying and try to avoid playing in games with these guys sitting whenever possible and/or call them out on any BS they might see.

None of this is even worth debating. You are a complete and utter moron if you do not believe this (and every) online poker is raped & gutted daily by bots, collusion, scripts & assorted in-game site operator "tweaks". All decks are adjustable real-time.

This site does not give one flying F-CK about you idiots except that your acct stays open & well funded.

Any Einstein that feels the need to respond with an opposing view, shouldn't. You will only be glorifying your ignorance on a subject, in which you have no experience. You will only be laughed at with pity and shunned like legless sheep.

my kinda attitude GL GL guy

spoken like a true monthly depositor

What's up Jay!

I know ur position(and that of many others) and I appreciate it, but you know why I don't play here and how much I would love to, and threads like this and the networks position or lack of on it and many other things keeps me from doing so. I can't help but wonder how many others there are like me waiting on the sidelines following all this? Not that you want me in your games anyway besides for traffic haha! Gl at the tables and keep crushing, I may be back soon I'm trying to find a way to justify it and make a +ev plan under the circumstances.

Are cyal8erloser and imahustlababy connected because they only seem to play together.

are they playing again? yes cyal8r and imahustla are most likely colluding. they are also related to the goldeneagles, acaibowl and wastedpotential accounts fwiw.

ya micro turbo DoNs. and they play a similar style... terrible

Still no evidence, right?

Nothing concrete, only the fact that I have only seen both accounts play in the same games together and never just one of them plus the fact they never get involved with each other. For me I don't really care. I just won't play any games that they are in. It's not like DoNs are the only games I like. However, if cyal8erloser would like to have a small prop with games that don't include imahustlababy I would love that.

And they are back at it tonite....

Cause he's a hustla baby!

Tons of similarities in these accounts, they have been seen regging and unregging simultaneously on multiple occasions and even tried to bait regs into games by being the last ones to register. Both of these accounts sat out of the same million satty from the sit and crush promo. They both play a 4/3 style early game to increase their chance of making the bubble togeher. Most all of their volume is together. Cyal8rloser has also posted in the transfer thread with 2 accounts he claimed to be his own and both of those accounts had history of playing dons together. I'm sure TiftCountyHick has some HHs on these guys as he played the most with them, but I do not have any to post. Yes there is still no evidence.

I wonder how WPN can feel good about themselves knowing they are being out smarted by a few scumbags and having the sites reputation being drag through the mud.

Haven't played dons in a while but I just had to jump in last night.

He went pretty nuts in chat.



I talked to Paul form btc and he agreed that these two are most likely colluding but couldn't do much as they aren't on betcoin's skin. He did however pass this info along to whatever skin he's on.

I am actually starting to think WPNs security team doesn't really know what to look for. Do they even realize that there doesn't have to be blatant chip dumping for there to be cheating? To me it looks like either one guy playing on two accounts or two separate players sharing card information with each other during play. What can't be denied is the fact that these two accounts are definitely working together and it is time WPN did something about these accounts and others like them.

They know they just don't do anything about it. I've sent them emails about these accounts specifically and they have never replied, but when I email about other accounts I get a reply telling me they found nothing suspicious/players weren't cheating. I know others have reported the same accounts with the same lack of response. They tell you if they're not cheating and ignore you if they aren't able to proclaim their innocence, that's apparently standard policy or something.

The network don't care about collusion. People can say you need all these various stats but they aren't going to prove anything alone. Bubble play is crucial but the registration tendencies themselves draw red flags to me when it comes to DONs.

People can say that don't tell us anything but come on when a person plays like 95% of the DONs they do on a network with the same person registering almost always right behind one another, stopping at night at the same time unregistering for games that won't take off at the same time,etc. it screams red flags to me.

Then you have the alleged talk with this guy saying they won't call each others all ins which is cheating in the form of soft play but can be a great setup for cheaters depending where they are seated in the game to trap money by them stealing tons knowing the one person isn't calling the other.

I see they are playing $5 games right now. If my brain wasn't fried from playing nearly 250 sngs today and somehow not catching the dude at the top like I thought I had it with all my games points in queue then I'd jump in there games and make it more difficult for them to accomplish what they are trying to for the simple fact I can't stand cheaters.

I witnessed some shady stuff playing late $5 dons tonight. I'll share my HHs gladly if anyone wants them. I don't play dons very often, but had some interesting, enlightening chat with some of the most obvious/ accused of cheaters. He all but admitted that he was cheating. He mentioned "leveling the playing field"

I could be way off here but the other nite I regged for some DoNs and when I noticed who was in them I immidiately unregged and regged for the next sng with no other entrants. These two accounts proceeded to skip the sng I had just regged for and both regged for the next open sng. I guess is there are enough regs who will reg first it might "block" them from enough games they/him might just give up.

Ok so I just spoke to support about the status of the cyal8erloser and imahustlababy accounts after reporting them a few days ago. Although they couldnt give me their findings, when I asked if I dont need to worry about this anymore support said that was correct, read into that however you want. I also have not seen either account on the last 2 days but have seen cyal8er playing on Merge.

So if the accounts are locked, it is time WPN did the right thing and:

1. Admit their mistakes regarding these accounts

2. Remove these accounts from the leaderboard

3. Start the process of refunding players who have been cheated