While this maybe accurate it doesn't change the fact WPN handled past confirmed colluders in the poorest fashion possible. If they had been on the ball from the get-go they could have prevented the fire storm that developed. While personally I think they are getting rid of the DoNs because they don't know how to patrol them properly, it doesn't matter because it was a mess the network created in the first place.

Hand for Hand in Satellites is a must. Too much stalling .

Meant to say hate that the lobby is full of DONs lol.

i was crossing my fingers for just the opposite

lol wow thats pathetic excuse to get rid of DoNs. there goes a good majority of your SNG traffic. lol they will be back.

just finished the portion of the talk where phil talked about jackpot poker. it didn't seem to me that he addressed the logical concerns raised in the thread. just a rundown on how they work (we already knew) and how they will attract new players (we already knew). zero attention to the loss rate of the fish and how that is bad for an ecosystem. and only attempt at the argument that no money goes to cash was an n=1 example of a guy playing high stakes NL after binking an MTT win.

here's what needs to be addressed, but wasn't...

1. the new players attracted will not be attracted to other variants

2. it will, however, steal players from existing variants (cash games worse)

3. rec players will lose at a faster rate (economic common sense.. you can't use resources faster than they can be replenished in a sustainable system)

4. the few winners won't reinvest in cash games (this is principle, one or two exceptions don't disprove the general rule)

5. other posters who seem to know their **** (santa cruz), have said that jackpot poker in fact hasn't helped the cash game economy in other sites like stars... thus confirming everything in points #1-4... and why its so infuriating to keep hearing the same refrain, "these have been highly successful at bringing new players into the economy at other sites", which.. while true, doesn't touch the complaints

so.. if we could never hear that reasoning as a stand alone again.. that would be great...

it MUST be.. "these have been highly successful at bringing new players to the site.. AND... here's why we think we will be able to get a decent percentage of these new players to play other variants while not losing existing players to the new variant... where other sites seemingly haven't been able to..."

DON's wont be back. Ignoring all the collusion thread etc, we have been looking to get rid of them for a very long time.

i dont see why, its a huge part of your SNG traffic...

The collusion thread just prompted us to move faster with this. From what i saw we lost players because of suspected collusion also.

As i said its been on the cards for a long time and with the introduction of jackpot sng's it gives us the oppurtunity to get rid of them.

That seems like a cop out because you guys don't know how to handle collusion, and i dont think so the last couple weeks since ive been playing have had great DoN traffic. so once the leaderboard stops adding the money to top 10 and dons are gone then the traffic is going to drop. I mean im all for the Jackpot poker but taking away DoNs completely is a little ridiculous since its my main SNG type i play and have alot of success at. Merge still has DoNs and never has problems with collusion, and Bovada has a pretty solid collusion solution.

Let me just clarify. We are not getting rid of DON's becuase of suspected collusion. I got sent numerous PM's with suspected hand ID's that just werent collusion.

This was our plan for more than a year and now we feel it is the right time to move forward with this. I understand players will not like it but we have taken this decision.

would you guys copy stars some more and get Fifty/50s please?

Well yeah, people got kind of tired of having to sit with cheaters. Removing them wasn't the answer and they'll only hurt the site.

gl

DONs were a pretty big part of SNGs.

I can definitely say that Bruce, among others, primarily played the DONs. With the site traffic being where it is at, I can understand the removal of them from a business standpoint. Although, to remove them forever seems to be a bit of an overkill. I think when the site's traffic grows a bit more (it seems to be doing just that with the recent marketing.) that 50/50's should be introduced.

Ceo's explanation of getting rid of dons only made me feel like you guys have no Idea how or why certain structures bring in traffic, nor do you understand what is similar to that traffic... The fact you think a DoN player even recreational would start playing Jackpots... makes me wonder about the level of poker knowledge you actually have... Those replaced HU sng's practically on Stars.. not their 50/50s...


On top of that it's one of the simplest formats to find collusion!!! Yet it's too hard for you?!? I could review an entire day of DoN's on your site within 1 hour to find collusion. And honestly I would be able to give better insight as a player if you let us see players mucked cards.. But hey that's a client issue not a don issue

Let alone the simple fact your structure is astonishingly bad.. You have it as an 8 man, not a 10 man or a 6 man like standard... Which would be fine if your structure made sense..

Example: 100/200 blinds then you go to 100/200 blinds with antes.. Not only do the antes come in late to the structure, but You are repeating a level... Which for the competent players understand when antes hit how their ranges open up. But the fact you repeat a level when everyone is usually around 5 to 15 big blinds, is absolutely moronic.. This isn't an MTT where people are an average stack of 35+ bb's... You should eliminate the 100/200 without antes level in my opinion and it will not only increase the speed of the games but also make then have a smooth pattern to the players play.

What really pissed me off though was the CEO going and talking on twitch claiming his reasons why he wanted them gone... "I'm sick of hearing about collusion"..etc. Honestly so because you are tired of hearing about the ignorance of players complain about others possibly cheating, you are going to remove the format.. ‪#‎bestlogicNA‬ So instead of paying a player to do a 3rd party investigation or even have someone in house do hand reviews for ~6-8hrs a week is too much? I now understand why your site crashes ~5-6x a week.. #bestlogicNA


Now lets talk about how this moronic decision effects ACR and BCP current traffic. For the past week or so you've been getting alot of new traffic to your site, majority of it coming from players leaving Carbon Poker to come to you, due to the cashout issues that are occurring. Well lets just say Carbon is finally paying out and with you eliminating this format you have to be high on mescalin to think that these players will stay and play other formats. They will leave and most likely go back to carbon. See at right now you are more attractive than carbon for those players since you have a SnG leader-board like carbon once hand, but that leader-board is only an extra incentive, it won't change their minds. On top of that I hear you guys are going to take away the guarantee +250 after this week, since you guys haven't renewed it.


TL;DR: Jackpots sngs replace HU sngs not DoNs.
Collusion is extremely easy to spot in these games and take very little time to spot.
8mans was not a very smart format to implement for beginner players, Along with the actual format of the levels being flawed.
100/200 without antes should be removed.
Ceo's explanation of removing this format was comical.
By what has been said on 2+2 and now Twitch, You can expect alot of those players that played these formats to leave your site once you close down these games. I'd assume it's ~20% of your new SnG traffic.
Back to Carbon everyone goes. Good Luck BCP and ACR, I really hope you guys pull your heads out of your asses and see the light of logic.

Would it be possible to comment on/address the fact that no one receives emails from ACR anymore? There's a whole thread about it and people keep mentioning it in other threads as well and I haven't seen a legit response yet. The emails aren't going to spam they just don't arrive.

EDIT: Oh, and more hints on the upcoming WSOP promotion

I mentioned a long time ago that a new format sort of like DONs and maybe a little like 50/50's but not exactly like them that didn't volunteer collusion could be the answer.

The network does copy stars a lot though and they aren't going to say they don't because it is true but since Stars isn't serving the USA they don't care about it.

HU sngs should never be replaced. HU sngs are the most pure game out there for no collusion unless someone wants to pay a few bucks in rake to dump money to another player but why would anyone even do that when the site does have a transfer option?

They haven't announced anything about the leaderboard Top 10 added money but I'll say that has really increased the traffic and it would be very silly to get rid of it starting next week when they are introducing jackpot poker.

Speaking of Jackpot poker why not put out a better FAQ on it and confirm a few things such as:

How many points they will get towards SNC?

How many Jackpot Poker SNGs you can play at once?

etc...

6% is still raping people over a game that spins 2x (playing for 2/3rds the total buyins) a heavy majority of the time to push the money to the top. The game finishes in 5 minutes so it's rake rake rake for a network whereas the rec player who wants an hour experience can play a nine man that takes like 45 to 50 minutes for a turbo or double that for a reg speed.

500 chip turbo structure raked 6% for a 5 minute game and people say that rake isn't too high? If that one tabler has an hour to play so he gets in say just 10 games at the $10+.60 level he is paying $6 total in rake while playing one 9 man turbo he pays 90 cents.

I don't need to break the math down anymore why these games are rake whores for a network but I'm not going to blame WPN because it's true enough people are going to be playing these things so adding them is best for your bottom line for sure.

Just so I understand the DoNs were removed partly not because of suspected collusion but because of players complaining of suspected collusion. Maybe you could answer this then. In the last year how many accounts have been banned for collusion?

I'd like to hear the answer on that too but they aren't going to tell us.

In my time on of playing DONs regularly on WPN which I didn't play a ton of them on here until I believe August of last year I will say the first few months weren't much of a problem then a whole lot of new duos/groups of colluders came around.

Last night I played in a game with thundercat69 and overtherainbow and it was extremely obvious what they were doing even when I got 20+ games going I'm just cringing at every chip dumping move where some colluders do make this way more difficult to see for the inexperienced player or security team..

I wish the network took a different approach to DONs and just got rid of the handful of waste confiscating their funds and sending a message to people that we won't tolerate this type of play here and if they took the funds these players wouldn't come back but when some of these guys see the network look the other way the shady ones probably just figure hey if they are going to do nothing about it then lets get a partner or play on a few skins under different names,etc...

I just feel the network never tried enough when it came to policing DONs. It's funny they are saying now about how they wanted to remove them for over a year but then just started talking about 50/50s a few months back that could take over for DONs but never said complete removal until Jackpot Poker was coming.

Why even say that? Before SNC reloaded with the current point structure we have now this network SNG traffic was practically all DONs and HU sngs. People complained and then once reloaded launched the 9 man traffic started booming along with a few other formats.

To say they were looking to get rid of DONs over a year ago seems a bit crazy when they made up such a big amount of of SNG rake the network took in but now they feel the traffic has picked up with the other games and with Jackpot Poker coming that they will be fine without DONs.

I just think the comment of wanting them gone over a year ago is hilarious because if they truly wanted them out why didn't they remove them? We know why obviously and it's because they were the big bread maker for a while.

Will Bitcoin deposits be back in time before Reload Bonus promotion expires?

He was talking about how the evidence shows on stars that once the Spin N Gos were implemented it basically killed the Hyper HU SNG action because all the fish that wanted to play a quick game would play a Hyper HU SNG or Hyper 6max SNG and now with Spin N Gos added the action kind of tried up in those games thats why a majority of the HU SNG regs were upset about spin n gos. the same thing will happen on WPN but idk how the HU sng action is since i dont play them too much but it will be more reg filled since the fish now will flock to spin n gos. and i would imagine alot of the stars regs grinding the Spin n gos will come to WPN and try them out here since WPN is percieved to be alot softer to ROW players compared to stars. \

Now for the DoNs overtherainbow and thundercat have only played 9 games together according to sharkscope and they aren even winning players so we cant jump to conclusions on them yet but seriously the lazyness on WPNs part with DoNs is frustrating its not hard to spot collusion if you have hand histories with all whole cards shown. I mean i have played tens of thousands of DoNs and i can guarantee I could sit down for a couple hours and look at HH and be able to tell collusion. I mean seriously WPN why not hire some of the regs to be collusion detection and pay a salary or hourly wage equal to what they are making in the games and you will get the regs out of the games that are taking all of the fishes money and they can help you. I would be totally willing to do that.

Don't want to derail this thread as it can actually be useful so I'll reply to you in the DON thread.

Bravo CEO, getting rid of the competition for your Jackpot poker so people will be forced to play a game that makes you guys more money and eliminating your previous highest SNG volume game in the process. I commend you on your business tactics

And I personally lose all respect for you and your company as a grinder on your site. Not only are refusing to listen to what the majority of your SnG players want, but you dictating which game they must play now, by removing their currently most chosen format.
This reminds me of communist dictator, but hey why not have that Irony attached to the site... We are America's Cardroom where freedom of choice doesn't exist

Can you please add more micro turbo MTTs?

Don't get rid of the DON games please! I mostly play for fun in the lower buy-in levels which don't seem to attract colluders.